Sincere question: Can someone explain how you develop the skills and knowledge required to pull this off?
I'm no genius, but I'm reasonably sure I'm not a slouch either. I've got a masters in theoretical physics, I've worked with and written software for four years, I take an interest in anything techy I come across. I've picked up the basics of population genomics and molecular genetics without assistance.
I still find that projects like this are essentially black magic to me. Why are supercapacitors necessary to emulate a battery? How the hell does someone know how to mess with a bootloader in order to get past an internal partition corruption? How do you even tell if an internal partition is corrupted?
This is all stuff that I find massively impressive and enviable, but unlike essentially every other topic I've turned my attention to, there doesn't seem to be any readily identifiable path to mastery.
You can pick it up passively over time, and with your skills, if you were to actively engage then I suspect pick up the necessary very quickly, and the rest comes from experience.
I picked up Linux at 13, fortuitously just in time for the release of the Nokia 770 (later getting, and still owning the N900 too).
At that time, getting real dirty with the kernel, hardware, cross compiling etc was necessary, so 1) there were more resources 2) it was seen as mundane, busy work rather than mystical and difficult.
If I were to say how to learn the same things today, I’d probably say Gentoo is ideal - it’s insanely flexible in tinkering, has good resources on compiling the kernel and packages, and I’m a fan of crossdev for cross compiling.
Getting real dirty with hardware and electronics, the obvious answer would be one of the Raspberry Pi lineup, but if you’re very tenacious, patient and a touch unhinged, then I would actually say now’s the time to get in on RISC-V.
It’s still early days, so there’s lots of resources that have very thin abstractions between hardware <-> tooling <-> code. Devices are cheap and exciting. You’ll be on the same footing as most other people so you won’t feel like a dunce.
The cons are that a lot of RISC-V devices get shipped out with very little documentation (and sometimes only in Chinese), binary blobs making mainstream kernels difficult, and you’re learning at the same time, so you might feel you’re ice skating uphill.
Wrt to the bootloader and partition corruption; towards the twilight years of the life of the N900, when it became clear N900 had been abandoned and the N950 was still only available to select few, a bunch of smart people on the Maemo forums started reversing and writing open drivers (uboot bootloader, wifi, camera iirc), so they became pretty documented.
I read about lithium-ion and LiFePO batteries on Adafruit a few years ago, and saw similar projects elsewhere. The bootloader stuff is on Maemo wiki, along with tools to flash the device (which is also a bit of dark magic arts to me).
TBH, I didn't / don't exactly have a path. I started with Raspberry Pi (and Linux for the second time) 10+ years ago, which led me to Arduino, which led me to low-voltage electronics in general. At the same time, I had an unreasonable dislike of google, which led me to flashing LineageOS on a test phone, which then became my main phone, which eventually led to PinePhone, which didn't work out, but was fun.
I don't think true mastery exists in a continuously-evolving field like tech, it's all people just figuring things out, and accumulating enough knowledge/experience means the things you build no longer blow up and mostly do what you want them to ("mostly" being load-bearing here - even the big boys publish errata notices for their chips because even they miss things sometimes).
I don't have a degree in low voltage electrical engineering, but haven worked close to people who are this does all look like grunt work in that field. So maybe get a bachelor in low voltage electrical engineering? It's all as much digital/computational as it is actually physical these days. Lots of educated electrical engineers end up as software devs, often doing the low level coding. Bootloaders, firmware, and drivers are stuff you have to figure out if you want to get modern electrical hardware to do anything.
Can't claim to know the specifics, but there's some supporting links for both the battery and bootloader stuff in the article. The supercapacitor (can be a regular cap too, but would be physically much larger) is for buffering the power supply to prevent the device from shutting off if there's a momentary draw that causes the voltage to drop.
I appreciate what you're saying here, but what I'm asking about isn't the set of solutions to the problems described in the article. What I'm interested in is the underlying mental model of how this kind of device works.
Just play with electronics, Arduino/Raspberry/ESP32-compatible stuff is cheap and available. Lots of information about it. A phone is not that much different from a microcontroller board on a battery.
Like everything else,work on the observability first.
Can you grab the current boot partition? Once you have it can you decode it? Do you have a reference boot partition? Can you extract the bootloader from the boot partition? Can you read those binary files? Maybe turn them into readable assembly?
Can you clip a multimeter onto a PC trace? Can you do the same with a scope? Can you decipher what the 'scope capture means? Maybe use a bus pirate instead?
Honestly, It is just a matter of starting somewhere. Anywhere. All these hobbies are a huge rabbit hole that seem to converge.
I have friends who started with porting Sailfish OS to their old Android phone and now they are designing their own PCBs for their home automation system. They custom built their own RC cars, 3D printed their own ergonomic keyboards, designed their holiday decorative lights etc..
I have seen a lot of people in my local FPV Drone Racing community, who started with building their own custom drone and then moved on to 3D printing their modifications, tweaking their firmware, building their custom lithium battery packs, designing their ergonomic keyboards, and now fiddling with their home automation software/hardware.
Also installing Arch Linux onto some random piece of hardware, regularly following Hackaday like blogs seems to help.. lol.
Why go through that device-breaking battery dance when you can still get a BL-5J battery pretty much everywhere?
Booting from an SD card, while possible, is rather impractical on N900 because it gets disconnected whenever you open the back cover.
The N900 that lays next to me right now still works as a phone. I have to replace its screen though, as recently it took some damage in my pocket and got a small crack in its bottom middle. Touch still works perfectly though, so I'm not in a hurry :D
Not legally. Where I'm from they sold off the old 3G spectrum and frequencies, mostly (all?) to established telcos to use in 4G or 5G mobile services. They will not be happy if you start interfering with their customers there (especially not after the money they spent at the auction for those licenses).
There are some weird bits of the 900MHz band that cross into the fairly free-to-use ISM bands in some countries, and I recall a CCC talk where someone demonstrated a SDR setup doing mobile phone base station stuff by sneaking into what were ISM bands in Germany where he was that handsets would talk to because they were allocated as cellular phone spectrum in other parts of the world. Here in Australia we are limited and can't use the upper end of the 920MHz ISM band with LoRa devices, because Optus bought that spectrum for their phone network.
(Here in Aust4ralia we have other cellular spectrum and phone network problems, where a lot of older devices that support some 4 and/or 5G cannot reliably call 000 (our equivalent emergency number to the US 911), because the fall back to 3G when roaming onto other networks... A few people have died recently, and all the telcos are busy blocking a growing list of phones, mostly older Samsung ones if the noise in mainstream media here is accurate. I know my old but still otherwise functional Galaxy S6 Edge is not on the banned list.)
Depends on the country and provider but is sooner than later in Europe and I hate it that 2G is going away since all my old devices are not going to work again…
The article is from 2022 and is good enough summary. Specifics for sure can vary in between but that is why you are more than able to do an individual search.
A bit of a shame. I had a Nokia 6090 with 8 watt of transmit power on 900Mhz. Combined with a 33 centimeter antenna that phone had reception in nearly all of the European continent. And with a 70Ah 12v battery you had a battery life of weeks. Even with the phone consuming up to 25 watts during calls.
My fancy new 5G smartphone doesn’t work in rural parts of the country. We are going backwards.
It's a hot mess too. When you have an American carrier / phone number on an international plan and they shut down all radios in the case of an emergency in the EU, you still get 2G/3G service abroad while everyone's phones around you is dead.
What do you mean? They are shutting down the radio transceivers for 2G/3G, how would an American number/carrier get a signal in countries that have shut down their 2G/3G networks? Or are you talking about plans to do direct-to-cell satellite service, cause none of those are 2G/3G as far as I can tell?
The whole point is to free up spectrum, how would that work if that spectrum is still in use for the American carriers in countries that shut down the service for domestic use? Why would service be maintained for such a niche usecase?
I used to work as a software tester in Tampere, Finland with Nokia devices. We didn't test those devices in particular, but they were a big buzz in our office back in the day. I still have my n810, but haven't used it in years after the battery died. I remember adding a bunch of unofficial repos and having things like apache and python running on it and using it as a web server for a while. Eventually the battery was so discharged, even having it plugged in to the PSU would not be enough to keep it powered. It was such a shame it wouldn't run without the battery. I probably would still have use for it.
The N900 was my peak “mobile computing is awesome” device.
I went to see District 9 in the cinema in Helsinki. Uh oh, the alien parts are only subtitled in Finnish and Swedish and my Finnish is not up to that.
I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
The N9 had much better UI, but there was something of the cyberpunk “deck” idea in that thing, it was great.
I wish the N950 was fully released, there were some produced but I don't think it was commercially available. It was the true successor to the N900, it would have used the N9 software but unlike the N9 it also had a physical keyboard.
yeah I scooped n950 on some online marketplace for very cheap since it was bricked, fixed it and resold it for profit, but what a beauty of a phone, I wish I kept it.
So true! There will come a point at which there'll be two internets: the walled garden that only lets you in with Secure Attestation, Web Credentials for your verified age-of-maturity, etc. on a non-rooted device... and then the cyberpunk web where people running their own unofficial gear will be.
I wonder if one could do Anti-Secure-Attestation, like, only allow connections from rooted devices? Back to proving root by running a service on the good old sub-1024 ports?
>I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
That's probably what I would do but that's also why the iphone beat the crap out of Nokia, because that example of what you did with the N900 is a 1% of 1% of what users would use their phones for back then, and Steve Jobs knew it so he won consumers over with a pleasant and simple UX that lacked features instead of piling on Power User features that nobody would use.
You're not gonna sell too many phone if your target userbase is those who know what BitTorrent is and how to use it on their Linux phone.
Such Power User focused niche devices are only financially viable for small companies to develop and sell, but you can't keep a company the size of Nokia in business by only catering to Linux phone enthusiasts.
Their demise was inevitable at that point no matter what they did.
Back then, absolutely. But the long tail of the Internet, which is far more pervasive these days compared to back then, means that such a device could exist. Which arguably it does, with the GPD win max 2, if you install Linux on it.
That was never the problem. The problem was how could Nokia stay competitive to Apple and Google when their focus was selling Linux devices aimed power users.
I owned the N9. This was a phone which was perfectly good also for average users, and it seems it sold very well in the few markets where it was actually sold (sadly no major markets). But when it came to the market, it was already decided that Nokia will kill their own OS development in favor of Windows Phone, which then flopped spectacularly. A decision which many people called out for being stupid before the consequences had fully unfolded.
>This was a phone which was perfectly good also for average users
Not good enough to save it from the iPhone onslaught.
People on HN make this mistake to assume that they represent the "average user", the same mistake Steve Wozniak made. No, the average user wasn't interested in all the features of the N9. They much preferred the simpler iPhone and the proof is in the pudding.
>and it seems it sold very well in the few markets where it was actually sold
How do you know it sold well when Nokia never release official sales numbers for the N9?
Estimates put the N9 at less than 1 million sales in the 23 markets it was sold in. A drop in the ocean compared to total iPhone sales of the same timeframe in same 23 regions which estimate at 50 million total. Face it, the N9 was a sales flop no matter how you try to spin this, and launching in more markets would not have moved the needle significantly to make a dent in the iPhone.
>(sadly no major markets)
It launched in 23 markets mate, mostly EMEA and Asia. Not NA because even Nokia leadership realized the N9 won't stand a chance to compete with the iPhone and Blackberry on their home turf.
>A decision which many people called out for being stupid before the consequences had fully unfolded.
Nokia was already dead man walking even before that. Even their own employees said so when they got to play with the first iPhone in their HQ. The N9 was the band playing on the decks on the Titanic.
Blaming Nokia's inevitable failure on Windows Phone is historical revisionism. They would have failed either way since they lacked the software ecosystem beyond the phone that Apple and Google offered their users.
Fanboys praising the N9 as something that would have magically saved Nokia even they have done X or Y or Z with various Linux spins, are huffing some top end copium.
A million sales (I heard 1-2 million) for N9 are very good, considering that smartphone sales were in the millions at that time and that it was not sold in the US, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain etc. and had no marketing. Wikipedia says the original iPhone sales were 6 million in the first year which is a better comparison than the 93 million of total sales for 5 years for several iPhone generations. I think the "dead man" walking story is an interpretation which is not rooted in any hard fact. It is based on the idea that nothing can beat the iPhone, which is demonstrably wrong because Android did. And compared to Android (also a Linux phone), the N9 was definitely much better. But I also point out that far from everybody considered the iPhone impressive. In Europe initial sales for the iPhone were also not good.
In contrast the explanation I have for Nokia's failure gives a logical explanation: They panicked, prematurely declared thir existing phones obsolete, cancelled there next-gen development such as N9, and instead offered a poorer product (Windows Phone) at a later time. It is difficult to see how this can lead to anything else than failure.
Whether N9 and co. would be successful enough to save them in the long-run is pure speculation, but I see no fundamental why it could not, and it was ready at a time where Nokia was still big enough to get some app developers on board.
My N900 (Made in Finland, an early one) was great. I would have used it still if it wasn't for the fact that after 3G disappeared it was useless. The battery could be replaced (as others have mentioned), so it was perfectly fine still. Mechanically it was as good as new as well.
As it was basically like Debian Linux inside I could do what I usually do - write hobby projects and run it on the N900. I had my minicomputer emulator running. Nice to see my old favourite minicomputer editor on my N900.
Here's what I don't get: why can't we have a modern one? It doesn't need to blow flagship smartphones out of the water. It doesn't even need to have a GSM baseband – I'd rather just connect through my "normal" smartphone than deal with all the complications of having a whole extra computer in there.
Surely this is getting close to realizable by hobbyists or a niche company?
This is absolutely doable by a niche company. The problem is that you need to run this as a business. What plagues every free/open/libre project is that they're not run as a business; so they get distracted in all different directions trying to cater to ideals about free/libre licensing and so on, and end up missing the big picture.
You need to operate this as a business first, with the freedom part being a nice bonus. Nobody cares how free your thing is if it's dead on arrival and gets beaten by an entry-level smartphone.
Make a competitive product. Nowadays that could very well just mean Android with manufacturer-sanctioned root access and preinstalled terminal & X/wayland server for those who want to run desktop apps.
The Jolla phone someone linked below actually looks like a decent product. The Android app support means it's actually usable in the modern world, and the specs look competitive.
> "You need to operate this as a business first, [...] Make a competitive product."
Not only that, but you should not get suckered down into overcomplicating things by chasing complex novelties, e. g. integrated slider- or clamshell-implemented keyboards, silly and outdated form factors (clamshell UMPCs, OQO already showed the way), etc.
You want a good, small keyboard? Design it to be attachable. This is possible in a variety of ways and can be adapted to your manufacturing expertise. It also leaves open third-party hardware support for your device. Not to mention maintainability/repairability. It's utterly puzzling to me how many hardware start-ups already fuck up the basics.
And never forget: In a satured market, even catering to a niche, means you should go for a somewhat unique feature set. How many ultramobile devices are out there that are truly accessible and usable? That goes beyond just safety or repairability.
OLED screen? I'd rather prefer something PWM-free. Precision control? Digitizer/stylus support. You don't even need to house the stylus in the device. But it would be very useful to have at least one. Audio? Yeah, 3.5 mm is a must. Dedicated, easy-access mSD (Express) card slot? Yes, please. Exchangeable batteries? Good idea, as long as it's a standard design in good supply. Kill switches. Maybe a modular camera set up like those Chinese flagships that are otherwise rather useless. Full-feature connectivity (1-2 x USB 4). Etc.
Maybe you're right. But at the same time I feel (based on nothing) that even the performance of an entry-level Android phone, coupled with libre hardware and software, and a tiny little keyboard like the N900's, running an ordinary Linux distro, actually would find a market. A small market made up of us weirdos who find this HN thread interesting.
I recommend against GPD, since they're from Hong Kong / China and their warranty is terrible.
If you do decide to buy one, the hardware (of the Pocket 2 at least) is OK. Easy to open and such. You can even buy replacement battery. Buy one from Amazon in EU if you can, they have to provide 2 years warranty, at least.
There is the Gemini PDA from 2018 which has a physical keyboard. I heard it was mostly a disappointment.
There was another phone with keyboard around the same time, but I forgot the name. That was claimed to be very much in the spirit of the N950 and its cancelled follow-up, the Nokia Lauta.
All with Sailfish, the spiritual successor of Meamo/Meego from Nokia.
Mostly a disappointment? The keyboard is fantastic. I can tell because I have a Cosmo Communicator (successor with 4G) and Astro Slide (successor with slide mechanic and 5G). The keyboard of these is great, but... they got barely no support, and the company who build these is like AWOL. Either way, like the GPD Pocket series, the keyboard is larger compared to the Nokia N900 (3G) and Nokia N810 (WLAN only)
> There was another phone with keyboard around the same time, but I forgot the name. That was claimed to be very much in the spirit of the N950 and its cancelled follow-up, the Nokia Lauta.
Probably F(x)tec and their successors. Those have a similar small keyboard as Nokia N900 and Nokia N810
There's also the Hackberry. This device uses a real Blackberry keyboard, with custom firmware. It works together with a 3D printed case, and a RPi CM5. This keyboard, while small, is very ergonomic.
I loved my N9. But i'm somewhat hesitant on preordering that one. I need wireless charging.. And i still dont really get if Android-apps actually work or not, i.e. swedish Bank-Id/Swish etc.
I'd actually prefer one running a normal Linux. It's a travesty that certain things in daily life require Android or iOS, and that's a fight I'll keep fighting, but the idea of a tiny Linux laptop in my pocket is just so tempting.
It's excciting, but I saw a review of a pre-release c2 on youtube [0] the other day, and it seemed extremely slow in the interactions. Otherwise, it seems like a cool device.
Planet Computers Gemini? Or their Cosmo Communicator? (To be fair they’re more Psion 5-sized.)
Or do you remember the Beepberry/Beeper?
OTOH, your phone is more than capable, so maybe a small bluetooth keyboard is all you really need. There are apps like iSH on iOS or Termux on Android that give you a Linux shell.
Not directed at you, but what kind of person would [flag] and [dead] the other reply to your comment? Talk about not having a life!
As for the N9, it still has the most modern and beautiful GUI of any smart device, 15 years after being discontinued. It will take at least 15 more years for iOS or Android to reach that level, if ever. The physical design was also very nice and refined.
I always thought that flagging would get the comment put into a review queue (one that would put even your ability to flag at risk), but it seems that mass flagging gets you an automated flagkill of late. People can get flagkilled for not sufficiently loving particular products or for not being orthorexic enough.
As for the N900, I just wanted one or two more hardware iterations (the design flaws were annoying, and a couple mentioned in the OP.) The N9 looked great, but I couldn't get over the loss of the keyboard (although of course that was our dictated future.) The Meego transition seemed unnecessary and annoying (not the UI changes, but everything else), especially the move to rpms from debs. They were just hostile to Debian mainline for some reason; if they had been less hostile, their work would have survived without a break even after Elop intentionally tanked the company. That proprietary moat is just irresistible.
iOS and Android literally grabbed the designers of Maemo/Meego and WebOS to update their horrible UIs. Back then, they were still even refusing to multitask. Android copied WebOS almost exactly.
My favorite story to tell friends about District 9 is how the first two times I watched it at home, my version did not have subtitles at all - so I was always so confused by the alien monologue scenes.
It wasn’t until I was at a friends home who had it playing in the background, I glanced at the TV and jokingly said I wish we knew what the aliens were saying…lo and behold, there’s subtitles.
Same here. I miss my N900 dearly. It was one of my most expensive items at the time, and I enjoyed this device more than the Galaxy S I9000.
It had the best slide-out keyboard of all the phones, nice and rubbery keys. Super smooth sliding motion.
It also had a FM Transmitter (not just Receiver), so I could blast audio in my first car back then without struggling with bluetooth kits & audio cable (neither was standard).
It also had an infra-red transmitter that was programmable, so you could use it as a remote in certain circumstances.
It the time, the 32GB storage was absolutely massive for a phone.
It also had stereo speakers & a kick-stand, so you could watch a movie on it without issues.
I really miss this phone & era. Maemo OS could've owned the market today, as at the time it was much better than early Androids. Nokia messed up so hard after this, the N9 was shitty in comparison.
Amazing! One time I did something similar. Went to see a movie that was dubbed in Spanish, so I downloaded the movie in English and extracted the audio ahead of time, then I played it on my phone wearing headphones while watching the movie (had to pause/play to adjust timing a few times in the beginning, but after that it was great)
I was always kind of dissuaded by the chunky, bar of soap nature of the Nokia devices. (But then again, I had a few OpenPandora to play with as well..)
I had high hopes for the Creative Labs Zii Egg back in those days, it seemed to me to be a better Linux-based phone-like device. What a world it was...
To me it was also a huge disappointment. I had the N810 and it was amazing, I still have it. I wish I could get a new board for it. But the N900 was all cheap plastic, no metal like the 810, the magnets fell out all the time, the software was janky, and several promised features never arrived. It could have been awesome, but Nokia had already been distracted in their 5 device plan that the N900 was part of. We never got the follow up and Maemo was abandoned.
It is amazing Nokia missed on the mobile revolution as n900 predated iPhone if I remember correctly.
But Nokia did one massive mistake and it was to bet on Linux for this device. Even when they already had lot of Symbian experience, which also was week though when it came to user apps.
The modified BSD on the first iPhones was simply blazingly fast.
Linux was not a mistake on these devices. And I say that as the foremost hater of open source and Linux you can find around here. In fact, the N9 Linux phone was a huge success among everyday people in several countries. Farmers, teenagers, everybody got an N9. You couldn't go to any small party without at least two people having the N9 phone. Everybody loved them. It was in no way a hacker device for nerds.
What killed these Linux phones was Microsoft doing a hostile takeover of Nokia. The owners of Nokia felt they couldn't compete with Apple's iPhone and decided to scuttle their business and transfer out as much money as possible to their own offshore accounts in the Pacific before the company going belly up. I think they could have competed if they weren't such cowards.
Microsoft did take over Nokia much later than the N900. In fact, Nokia lost value after iPhone showed, and it is only when MS could take over it. And the Android is a side effect of the fact that the .NET was not ready to run existing phones, and Microsoft decided to release the WindowsPhone as non-Nokia branded one.
My BSD statement stays, though, MS did some very good work with the WinPhones, and in fact they were super snappy and useful, very close to what iPhones were at the time. And let's not forget, that the flat looks of (not sure which macos) was directly influenced by these winphones...
N9, not N900. Microsoft took over right before the N9 launch and instantly discontinued any further support for the platform. The "burning platform" as Elop called it.
> You couldn't go to any small party without at least two people having the N9 phone. Everybody loved them. It was in no way a hacker device for nerds.
I don't think I ever saw N9 or any of the N9XX phones in real life.
BSD and Linux are the same thing. That's the whole point of Posix.
What made the difference for the iPhone was that Apple's most expensive part of the whole device was the design. At the point it came out they had something like 23 years of very high end UX under their collective belts. It's one of the reasons why the little 128k Mac that came out the same year as the clunky old IBM PC AT was so expensive, too.
Good design is expensive, and it's the most important thing you'll spend money on.
Remember earlier in the week, all the discussion of Damn Small Linux and how a lot of the conversation around its UI was along the lines of "But I like it without all the wasteful whitespace" contrasted with "The whitespace at least needs to be consistent and the widgets need to look like they weren't thrown from the far side of a barn"?
Good design of the packaging has nothing to do with underlying OS, unless say it overheats a lot. TBH, the N900 had a fair design, I've used one, not talking from a bystander view, and it was good indeed. Save for the keyboard that perhaps costs 30% the device in order to be where it was (sliding and all). But also, the Nokia Nx's were slow as hell compared to iOS.
> The underlying OS makes no difference.
perhaps you've never experienced the bliss after setting up a BSD that just works 10 years after... and have never experienced the incredibly stable and snappy multiprocessing this miracle of a kernel (and OS) exhibits for decades now.
Let me tell you something - 20 years ago Linux was slow and unstasble as shit, and even slower on embedded. On the other hand FreeBSD and other BSD-derivates were super stable, but took more effort to setup and work with. They did not have the UI though, what Apple did was to wire their half-baked NeXT-inherited GUI on top of it and it flied.
I'm not even going to comment on the abomination called ObjectiveC, but matter of fact - the underlying OS workings were done in a brilliant way, WHICH, more than everything else enabled all the glitter tossed over the UI that you guys love so much. Like, there's a reason for game engines being written in C++ and not Python, right? Still a programming language though...
Sure lot of people adore what Sir Jony Ive did to the overall look and packaging of these products, and for a reason. But what truly distinguishes all these Mac products is what they can get out the hardware.
Sorry, but win3.11 did not work well on a 128kb RAM device. I've followed everything MS released since DOS 3.30 and witnessed firsthand the evolution of Linux and many of the distros. Nothing comes close to what Apple could do and is still doing with their hardware/software. No matter if you like Tim Cook (me personally - not) or Steve Jobs (very inspiring guy).
One of the reasons MacOS could draw attention from developers, who now form very important part of the user-base, is the fact they have a Unix-like thing at their disposal, and a very fast unix-like thing with some sort of a not-so-disgusting UI (wait for MacOS 26 though).
Nobody cares about darn window shadows, edges, or the unreasonable animation effects that we'd be turning off sooner or later.
Nokia was already fucked because it had set up a system in which internal divisions designed competing phones, as a result it had flooded the market with similar but-not-quite-the-same handsets with overlapping features, and it had missed out on usability advances that iOS had made.
Symbian was undergoing an overhaul which would eventually lead it to be ’good’ again, but by then it was too late as Android and iOS were already eating its lunch. And around the time of the N9 launch (touchscreen-only Maemo/meego phone), Stephen Elop took the helm and issued the famous “burning platforms” memo which put Nokia on the path to windows phone exclusivity, purely to the benefit of Microsoft, who delivered the killing blow by first forcing the doomed “Windows Phone” onto them, then buying the mobile phone division so MS could churn out more doomed handsets for their stillborn mobile platform.
tl;dr - The company was a clusterfuck riding on name recognition and then an MS plant killed it.
Linux on the N900 was neither here nor there. It was a skunkwork effectively, a niche device for nerds (and a great one). But it neither sank the company nor could have saved it.
The N9 could have saved the company in my opinion. It was great. I had it for some years before it broke and then found the Android I had afterwards to be poor compared to it.
A bigger mistake was to not give the N770, N800, etc. phone capabilities. I was buying a new phone around that time, and thought those devices looked cool; but I couldn't even consider them, because they couldn't do basic calls or SMS. They fixed that with the N900, but had lost their head-start.
perhaps because phone capabilities require more chips, and SDR that would've made the N800/N900 too pricey. but, honestly, this thing was slow as shit, I loved the design so much, and hated this half-baked Debian equally.
The fact you could run apt on it did not help that much for the regular user.
> I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
... while you were on the movies? That's "Mr Robot" level, kudos!
I remember when the N900 came out other phones including the iPhone could not process a web page with AJAX or most javascript and Flash. It truly gave you a desktop experience on a phone. You could open a terminal and ssh into a server or do whatever you want. Another funny thing people forget: It had another Finnish company's game for it that later became wildly successful: Rovio Angry Birds
Web browsing wasn't a particular strength of it. I remember the N900's browser came with a version of Gecko around a year old by the time. Flash support was a downside. And of course, contemporary iPhones ran circles around it in smoothness.
I did my master’s thesis on that device. I had a custom hypervisor running a guest kernel, virtualized networking, and a buildroot userspace. I could SSH into the host N810, then SSH into the guest. I even virtualized the framebuffer at some point and got the “dancing baby” animation playing from the guest. It only ran at a couple frames per second, but it was _amazing_.
The only weird thing about it was that you couldn't charge a fully empty N810 with the micro(?) usb charger. It'd charge just enough to boot and then crash again, because it couldn't wake up far enough to negotiate a higher current with the charger.
Had to use a barrel plug to charge it.
Spent a very nervous and sweaty day figuring that out when I bought one used with no warranty or returns and it didn't boot properly =)
I find the BL-5J battery format and its siblings quite cool actually. They fit much better for some projects than a 18650 etc. I wish there where more standard sized batteries and PCB holder for batteries like the BL-5J. While I can get many 18650 battery holders for PCBs even surface mount I have not seen anything more compact.
The folk who left Psion tried to resurrect the Psion 3/5 form factor a few times as an Android phone with a fairly decent keyboard, but I don’t think they’re still around (or that it’s cheap enough to justify getting one).
Picture me in 2007. "The iPhone. Psh. Like I'm going to switch to Cingular and pay thirty dollars for a data plan!" (Keep in mind that's $47 in today's dollars!)
I would use my N800 and Bluetooth-tether to my Verizon flip phone when on the go. It was mildly useful for things like LiveJournal and I'm sure the Twitter of that time would have worked on whatever browser Maemo had. But I had to admit by 2008 that I wanted a smartphone instead of this second device with a stylus.
In those days though, browsing the web as though you were on a desktop was thought to be the goal to aspire to. Even the iPhone launched with the default behavior in Safari being showing whole desktop webpages, and you zoomed in to the parts you wanted to use. It took a year or two for people to figure out 'responsive' and within 4 years most sites were starting to be designed for small portrait screens. At that point the landscape N800 style was at a disadvantage since the mobile sites being designed to be a little leaner, were the wrong layout, but the desktop sites were pretty heavy for a mobile device to handle. And as "apps" ate the world that probably put the final nail on our little N-series.
I remember running around campus looking for WiFi hotspots with my N810, using Google Voice to text my friends ($0.10 per text, no thank you!). Learned so much Linux admin skills that became so useful later in life. Favorite device ever! Eventually moved to Android smartphones but the ease of hacking, the amazing community (internettablettalk.com, looks like its gone now :( unfortunately...)
Back in the day I just had a cheap dumb phone with the $15/mo unlimited 3G data add-on and popped that SIM into whatever other device I was feeling at the time. It seemed like if it wasn't a common phone in the US, Cingular/AT&T never noticed.
On the software side there is an Argentinian (I believe) artist who actively uses blender on Nokia N95s, you can even connect a projector to it. Absolutely blew my mind when I saw it.
> A quick glance at the forums also confirms that USB port was poorly designed and is prone to breaking.
That was the death of mine. I had an external battery charger that I could use to charge the machine overnight, but it was too much of a hassle so it got recycled and I moved on to a Galaxy Note, which everyone laughed at for being enormous but now look at us, the base iPhone 17 is around the same size...
The N900 was a great little device, it was like having a tiny computer with full keyboard in my pocket. It's just a shame the built-in FM transmitter didn't work reliably, because I used it to listen to music in the car a lot.
It was also amazing to be able to download the whole world's map data (such as it was in 2010) to the device, so the GPS navigation still worked off-grid (deep-outback Australia in 2010 was not always that good for data connections).
I still have an N800-tough, it still works. It even holds a five day charge. This is from after the reboot, it runs linux and so far it has been ultra reliable. I have an older one as well that still works but this one is just a little more useful (it can serve as a wifi access point).
Nokia was so cool, before Android only SoCs swamped everything and it became impossible to run normal upstream Linux stack on phones because no one provides open drivers for a whole bunch of stuff.
Good read. I did the exact same modification to my N900; it was my internet router for several years.
In those days, a mobile carrier in my country offered a relatively cheap data plan for dumb phones: unlimited data, but restricted internet connectivity with a WAP proxy. Fortunately, thanks to curl and busybox utils, I figured out that the proxy allowed CONNECT requests, and a tiny C program on my N900 was able to transparently tunnel all TCP connections to the internet.
BTW, my N900 had another mod: it featured a Type-A female port :)
I had one of these around 2011! Used it to host a websocket server - a novelty at the time - during a conference talk, and it held up to 30+ clients before dying.
My N900 was one of my favorite computing devices that I've owned. The keyboard was good enough for my needs, I could open a terminal quickly, battery life was fine. If someone came out with a modern version that had a slide out keyboard and similar size, maybe running a raspberry-pi level CPU, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
My first Internet phone was the Nokia 9000, which was limited to GSM (9600bps). I built and debugged one of the first major music streaming services on that connection because I was working remote and my DSL got cut off. I had to add a 2Kbps stream option to the production servers for myself just so I could test it.
Yes! I was so excited he had that phone in the movie.
They even include an owner in-joke, which means someone in the production must have owned one of these phones. Everyone I lent the phone to would pick it up the "wrong" way -- they would put the external screen to their face, like every other phone. But the mic and speaker were on the back. I had to quickly find the scene in the movie here:
Fortunately - Symbian was painful. It was designed with a half-baked C++ standard and devices with 1-2 MB of RAM in mind and apparently never thoroughly upgraded.
It wasn't really abandoned so much as killed by PayPal.
The project used PayPal to gather downpayments, PayPal decided to lock the funds for months (almost a year or maybe longer IIRC) because they saw money coming in but no confirmation of goods coming out. And, you know, when it comes to big companies, no explanation is sufficient, you are guilty of something because some heuristic said so, so the funds were locked, legal threats didn't work (try threatening a company with the power of a small/medium country), and by the time they got their money back, key people who were going to work at a discount to cover key milestones had moved on.
This seems like weird revisionist history or I missed something. I never got a dime back that I spent on the Neo900, which I assumed they spent on their personal lifestyles and travel while trying and failing to design and manufacture a board.
If there was actually a holdup of funds that killed the project, and eventually the funds were released, that's an even worse story. I didn't think there could be a worse story. It would mean that the project fell apart while they were waiting on cash, then when they got it they just treated it like a personal windfall. IIRC I ended up out $1.5K on the thing.
Paypal released the funds to the project, not to the people making the downpayments. Paypal never returns money immediately to anyone, they sit on it for months while they "investigate".
I don't know who you are or where you were but the paypal problems were pretty well announced and _I_ was there. The project was already facing delays because a key person who was needed to make the board layouts was held up with the also now dead DragonBox Pyra handheld.
I have no idea where you think the money went, how much you think there was, but it was a constant game of trying to drum up enough activity to gain attention of potential customers to bring in enough down-payments to pay the salaries of the small number of people working on the project while having enough money to buy parts. The money went into salaries, parts, nobody bought hookers or blow with it, and certainly nobody got anything but stress out of that project in the end. I believe Joerg Reisenweber paid a lawyer out of pocket to try to get PayPal to release the funds.
Man I really wanted the N900 so badly, my first real smartphone. But I decided to skip N900, because I was sure that the N901 (or whatever) was going to be insane good and I wanted to not spend the money yet.
It's because the phone design needs the battery to help stabilize the voltage under load. As we know, digital devices can nearly instantaneously change the amount of current they consume and thus require layers of energy storage to accommodate the transient currents quickly. However, the changing current consumption doesn't just happen briefly. It sometimes continues to ramp for more than milliseconds (a glacial time frame for modern electronics). Thus generally every component in the power supply network of a design serves some stabilization and filtering role, including the batteries.
It appears that in this case, as the original battery aged, its internal apparent resistance (ESR) increased beyond the original design expectations, to a point where the phone won't work when plugged in to a charging cable because despite the charging cable most likely being able to deliver sufficient power at DC, it had too much impedance to supply it quickly enough. When current is demanded from a source that has too high impedance to supply it, the voltage drops. This will result in significant voltage ripple to the power supply of the digital circuits, which can cause logic to not function correctly.
Adding a large capacitor basically replaced the filtering and stabilization role of the original battery.
Interestingly people often intentionally remove capacitors for side channel measurements and glitching attacks.
Fascinating, thanks for explaining! I had assumed it was just that capacitors were easier to get hold of than batteries, and that the author was just putting up with a reduced "battery" life as a result. It makes sense to replace with capacitors if they're just using it for always-powered static applications -- probably with much lower fire risk to boot.
The best phone I have ever owned! Running linux you could do so much including hacking wifi. The keyboard was great and the pop out camera for video calls was fun to use.
I wanted an N900 so bad when it came out. A buddy of mine had one, but I had recently purchased a new iPhone. I couldn't justify switching at that point.
I looked, but TBH, not sure what to make of "genuine" and "OEM" claims for a battery for a 16–year-old device (or 10-year-old if you count compatible Lumias). Descriptions usually do not mention manufacture dates either.
> not sure what to make of "genuine" and "OEM" claims for a battery for a 16–year-old device
They're lies, but the batteries work. There were Chinese lines manufacturing knockoff BL-5Js, and there may still be one or two, or just a bunch of crates filled with old ones. Source: still use an N900, but just for podcasts.
> 10-year-old if you count compatible Lumias
Worse, those Lumia BL-5Js aren't actually compatible. The slots cut into the battery aren't wide enough to fit into the N900. Unless you're willing to cut apart the battery itself, they're useless.
Did it? I mean, even when you compare it to its contemporary devices (it took a while for Android to get close to smooth animations and fluid navigation, even without the type of true compositing and multitasking the n900 had).
Check out the Hackberry designs from ZitaoTech. They're pretty amazing. I'm currently in the process of porting Plasma Mobile onto the device so that there's a better UI for it.
that was an enjoyable read!
loved reading stuff about smartphones on forums, especially symbian ones where the die hard fanboys absoultely believed that this device was better than the iphones and htcs had to offer (including me).
too bad maemo / meego died off, we may have seen more interesting devices.
loved the "Contains no LLM-generated content" bit.
I still have one in a drawer from when I worked at Nokia around 2009. Great device. I also had the N800 before that.
What made them interesting wasn't the hardware, though the full keyboard on the N900 was useful but the fact that it was Linux phone based on Debian complete with the ability to apt-get install whatever the hell you wanted. Including compilers, developer tools, openssh, and whatever you could think of.
The big difference between the N800 and the N900 was that the N800 was more of a tablet form factor (released years before the ipad or the iphone were a thing). The N900 was smaller and had a proper phone built in. It could connect to mobile networks and make phone calls. The N800 was by operator decree basically crippled to be wifi only. Operators absolutely hated the notion of an open platform like Linux running on devices connected to their networks.
The victory Steve Jobs imposed on operators was basically getting them to beg on their knees if he would please allow iphones on their networks. He completely turned the tables on them. The first iphones were exclusive to some networks only and people cancelled their subscriptions if they were on the wrong network. That's why iMessage is a thing and SMS texts are a thing that is no longer generating meaningful amounts of revenue for operators. There was no off switch for iMessage. Steve Jobs basically told operators to take it or leave it. Likewise MMS was not a thing on the first iphone. Nokia mistook that as a fatal omission. A missing feature. The truth was that MMS was dead as a doornail the moment 3G internet connectivity became a thing. Why have operators act as a middle man? Steve Jobs had no patience for any of that.
Anyway, Nokia still obeyed the operators and it ended up crippling anything with software potential. There were big discussions about having Skype on these things. The N800 had that. And a webcam. You could make video calls with it. In 2007. The N900 did not have Skype. And it was positioned as a developer phone. Worse, it had to compete internally with Symbian and the Symbian team was in control of the company.
So, it was positioned as a developer phone and the N9 was launched (2011) similarly crippled in the same week that they shut down the entire team working on the OS. That was around the time Symbian lost out to Windows Phone and the beginning of the implosion of Nokia's phone division.
The key point here is that Nokia had an Android competitor long before Google launched the Nexus. Before they had the Nexus, they were dual booting N800s into Android. I flashed mine with a development build at some point even. Nokia screwed up the huge chance they had there long before the iphone was about to launch. The N770 launched late 2005. The iphone wasn't even announced until 2007.
Nokia did not understand what it had and crippled the platform instead. And then it dropped out of the market completely.
> What made them interesting wasn't the hardware, though the full keyboard on the N900 was useful but the fact that it was Linux phone based on Debian complete with the ability to apt-get install whatever the hell you wanted.
Such phones exist today, too. Sent from my Librem 5.
Indeed, I had a Freerunner back then (the N900 came out after, and I couldn't get its predecessors since they weren't phones, as the parent points out). It served me well for about a decade, and I've now upgraded to a Pinephone.
Like any other large company, Nokia needed time to adjust its strategy, whether it would have happened or not we will never know, because Nokia got Trojan horsed by Microsoft killing any plausible competition to windows phone, and the whole phone division as a result. I still find it incredible that it happened just like that.
There sorta was and still is, just it uses the same endpoint as APN/APS so if any telecom wanted to block it all iphone users on their network would lose push notifications too.
I'm glad telecoms got put in their place, used to be a give them an inch and they'd take a mile type situation. I dont miss their games.
Sincere question: Can someone explain how you develop the skills and knowledge required to pull this off?
I'm no genius, but I'm reasonably sure I'm not a slouch either. I've got a masters in theoretical physics, I've worked with and written software for four years, I take an interest in anything techy I come across. I've picked up the basics of population genomics and molecular genetics without assistance.
I still find that projects like this are essentially black magic to me. Why are supercapacitors necessary to emulate a battery? How the hell does someone know how to mess with a bootloader in order to get past an internal partition corruption? How do you even tell if an internal partition is corrupted?
This is all stuff that I find massively impressive and enviable, but unlike essentially every other topic I've turned my attention to, there doesn't seem to be any readily identifiable path to mastery.
You can pick it up passively over time, and with your skills, if you were to actively engage then I suspect pick up the necessary very quickly, and the rest comes from experience.
I picked up Linux at 13, fortuitously just in time for the release of the Nokia 770 (later getting, and still owning the N900 too).
At that time, getting real dirty with the kernel, hardware, cross compiling etc was necessary, so 1) there were more resources 2) it was seen as mundane, busy work rather than mystical and difficult.
If I were to say how to learn the same things today, I’d probably say Gentoo is ideal - it’s insanely flexible in tinkering, has good resources on compiling the kernel and packages, and I’m a fan of crossdev for cross compiling.
Getting real dirty with hardware and electronics, the obvious answer would be one of the Raspberry Pi lineup, but if you’re very tenacious, patient and a touch unhinged, then I would actually say now’s the time to get in on RISC-V.
It’s still early days, so there’s lots of resources that have very thin abstractions between hardware <-> tooling <-> code. Devices are cheap and exciting. You’ll be on the same footing as most other people so you won’t feel like a dunce.
The cons are that a lot of RISC-V devices get shipped out with very little documentation (and sometimes only in Chinese), binary blobs making mainstream kernels difficult, and you’re learning at the same time, so you might feel you’re ice skating uphill.
Wrt to the bootloader and partition corruption; towards the twilight years of the life of the N900, when it became clear N900 had been abandoned and the N950 was still only available to select few, a bunch of smart people on the Maemo forums started reversing and writing open drivers (uboot bootloader, wifi, camera iirc), so they became pretty documented.
I read about lithium-ion and LiFePO batteries on Adafruit a few years ago, and saw similar projects elsewhere. The bootloader stuff is on Maemo wiki, along with tools to flash the device (which is also a bit of dark magic arts to me).
TBH, I didn't / don't exactly have a path. I started with Raspberry Pi (and Linux for the second time) 10+ years ago, which led me to Arduino, which led me to low-voltage electronics in general. At the same time, I had an unreasonable dislike of google, which led me to flashing LineageOS on a test phone, which then became my main phone, which eventually led to PinePhone, which didn't work out, but was fun.
I don't think true mastery exists in a continuously-evolving field like tech, it's all people just figuring things out, and accumulating enough knowledge/experience means the things you build no longer blow up and mostly do what you want them to ("mostly" being load-bearing here - even the big boys publish errata notices for their chips because even they miss things sometimes).
I don't have a degree in low voltage electrical engineering, but haven worked close to people who are this does all look like grunt work in that field. So maybe get a bachelor in low voltage electrical engineering? It's all as much digital/computational as it is actually physical these days. Lots of educated electrical engineers end up as software devs, often doing the low level coding. Bootloaders, firmware, and drivers are stuff you have to figure out if you want to get modern electrical hardware to do anything.
* sorry, I accidentally a word
Can't claim to know the specifics, but there's some supporting links for both the battery and bootloader stuff in the article. The supercapacitor (can be a regular cap too, but would be physically much larger) is for buffering the power supply to prevent the device from shutting off if there's a momentary draw that causes the voltage to drop.
I appreciate what you're saying here, but what I'm asking about isn't the set of solutions to the problems described in the article. What I'm interested in is the underlying mental model of how this kind of device works.
Just play with electronics, Arduino/Raspberry/ESP32-compatible stuff is cheap and available. Lots of information about it. A phone is not that much different from a microcontroller board on a battery.
Like everything else,work on the observability first.
Can you grab the current boot partition? Once you have it can you decode it? Do you have a reference boot partition? Can you extract the bootloader from the boot partition? Can you read those binary files? Maybe turn them into readable assembly?
Can you clip a multimeter onto a PC trace? Can you do the same with a scope? Can you decipher what the 'scope capture means? Maybe use a bus pirate instead?
It's all about observability.
Honestly, It is just a matter of starting somewhere. Anywhere. All these hobbies are a huge rabbit hole that seem to converge.
I have friends who started with porting Sailfish OS to their old Android phone and now they are designing their own PCBs for their home automation system. They custom built their own RC cars, 3D printed their own ergonomic keyboards, designed their holiday decorative lights etc..
I have seen a lot of people in my local FPV Drone Racing community, who started with building their own custom drone and then moved on to 3D printing their modifications, tweaking their firmware, building their custom lithium battery packs, designing their ergonomic keyboards, and now fiddling with their home automation software/hardware.
Also installing Arch Linux onto some random piece of hardware, regularly following Hackaday like blogs seems to help.. lol.
A lot of this looks like black magic from the outside because the learning path is mostly invisible
Why go through that device-breaking battery dance when you can still get a BL-5J battery pretty much everywhere?
Booting from an SD card, while possible, is rather impractical on N900 because it gets disconnected whenever you open the back cover.
The N900 that lays next to me right now still works as a phone. I have to replace its screen though, as recently it took some damage in my pocket and got a small crack in its bottom middle. Touch still works perfectly though, so I'm not in a hurry :D
> The N900 that lays next to me right now still works as a phone.
It soon won't be. 3G and 2G network are being depreciated quickly around the world
I apologize for being that guy, but they are being deprecated. To depreciate is to decrease in value.
but then, deprecation causes depreciation in this case, for extra fun.
Can I broadcast my own 3G cell inside my house with some magic radio device?
Not legally. Where I'm from they sold off the old 3G spectrum and frequencies, mostly (all?) to established telcos to use in 4G or 5G mobile services. They will not be happy if you start interfering with their customers there (especially not after the money they spent at the auction for those licenses).
There are some weird bits of the 900MHz band that cross into the fairly free-to-use ISM bands in some countries, and I recall a CCC talk where someone demonstrated a SDR setup doing mobile phone base station stuff by sneaking into what were ISM bands in Germany where he was that handsets would talk to because they were allocated as cellular phone spectrum in other parts of the world. Here in Australia we are limited and can't use the upper end of the 920MHz ISM band with LoRa devices, because Optus bought that spectrum for their phone network.
(Here in Aust4ralia we have other cellular spectrum and phone network problems, where a lot of older devices that support some 4 and/or 5G cannot reliably call 000 (our equivalent emergency number to the US 911), because the fall back to 3G when roaming onto other networks... A few people have died recently, and all the telcos are busy blocking a growing list of phones, mostly older Samsung ones if the noise in mainstream media here is accurate. I know my old but still otherwise functional Galaxy S6 Edge is not on the banned list.)
The last paragraph definitely sums up how much of a bureaucratic and dystopian joke Australia is. Should have kept 2G up!
Europe can use 433 and 866 MHZ for ISM.
I've only heard of doing so for 2G: https://hackaday.com/2025/10/06/2g-gone-bring-it-back-yourse...
Yes, there was such a thing called Vodafone SureSignal and similar devices:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vodafone-075375-Sure-Signal-V3/dp/B...
Not sure about 3G, but here's an example of 2G: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMWvA4Ty1Wk
Edit: same as already posted hackaday, oop!
Should still be fine for at least a few years here.
Depends on the country and provider but is sooner than later in Europe and I hate it that 2G is going away since all my old devices are not going to work again…
https://onomondo.com/blog/2g-3g-sunset-2/
That article is full of made up slop - at least in terms of Europe.
Most of the dates stated are just plain wrong.
The UK dates are completely wrong - by 5 years in most cases.
All of the UK's 2G networks are still running, and the last won't be switched off until at least 2030.
The article is from 2022 and is good enough summary. Specifics for sure can vary in between but that is why you are more than able to do an individual search.
Here in Australia 3G is totally gone already. 2G went years ago.
In Europe we keep 2G as a failsafe, deprecating only 3G.
Not true, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out
Many countries/carriers in europe have already shut down 2G, many will shut it down in 2027. A few will keep it a few years more.
A bit of a shame. I had a Nokia 6090 with 8 watt of transmit power on 900Mhz. Combined with a 33 centimeter antenna that phone had reception in nearly all of the European continent. And with a 70Ah 12v battery you had a battery life of weeks. Even with the phone consuming up to 25 watts during calls.
My fancy new 5G smartphone doesn’t work in rural parts of the country. We are going backwards.
It's a hot mess too. When you have an American carrier / phone number on an international plan and they shut down all radios in the case of an emergency in the EU, you still get 2G/3G service abroad while everyone's phones around you is dead.
What do you mean? They are shutting down the radio transceivers for 2G/3G, how would an American number/carrier get a signal in countries that have shut down their 2G/3G networks? Or are you talking about plans to do direct-to-cell satellite service, cause none of those are 2G/3G as far as I can tell?
The whole point is to free up spectrum, how would that work if that spectrum is still in use for the American carriers in countries that shut down the service for domestic use? Why would service be maintained for such a niche usecase?
I wish… https://techsverige.se/en/2024/01/sverige-slacker-2g-och-3g-...
nope, check the link I posted in another comment: https://onomondo.com/blog/2g-3g-sunset-2/#europe
please note that the list is not fully up to date, eg. in Germany Voda and Telekom have said that they will sunset 2G in summer 2028.
Where's the fun in that?
Maemo wiki states that Maemo Leste should be run from SD card. I am actually surprised that the phone can use the SD slot at high enough speed.
I agree that fun is enough of a reason, but treating the battery contacts with 5V seems like a rather sadistic kind of fun to me :P
I think OP wants it to be an always-on device. The last sentence in the post is
> Nokia N900 enjoying its new life as an online radio device using Open Media Player.
But I agree with your sentiment. Using supercaps seems overengineered to me if the device is connected anyway.
It can't be used in a mobile way much anymore, with all 3G and many 2G shut down in the US.
The caps / supercaps are necessary to provide enough current during boot or more resource-intensive tasks.
> it gets disconnected whenever you open the back cover
Does it? I don't recall mine doing so.
Yes it does (based on a hall sensor), though looking up it turns out that it's actually the Nokia's kernel that does it, so other OSes may not do it.
Yep, I remember there being a magnet hack placed on the kickstand so that it would be detected properly
I used to work as a software tester in Tampere, Finland with Nokia devices. We didn't test those devices in particular, but they were a big buzz in our office back in the day. I still have my n810, but haven't used it in years after the battery died. I remember adding a bunch of unofficial repos and having things like apache and python running on it and using it as a web server for a while. Eventually the battery was so discharged, even having it plugged in to the PSU would not be enough to keep it powered. It was such a shame it wouldn't run without the battery. I probably would still have use for it.
The N900 was my peak “mobile computing is awesome” device.
I went to see District 9 in the cinema in Helsinki. Uh oh, the alien parts are only subtitled in Finnish and Swedish and my Finnish is not up to that.
I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
The N9 had much better UI, but there was something of the cyberpunk “deck” idea in that thing, it was great.
I wish the N950 was fully released, there were some produced but I don't think it was commercially available. It was the true successor to the N900, it would have used the N9 software but unlike the N9 it also had a physical keyboard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N950
yeah I scooped n950 on some online marketplace for very cheap since it was bricked, fixed it and resold it for profit, but what a beauty of a phone, I wish I kept it.
wow dude, a new 950 in the box is a mere $50,000 on eBay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154469885901
Yeah the cyberpunk part is you can compute without explicitly needing someone's permission.
So true! There will come a point at which there'll be two internets: the walled garden that only lets you in with Secure Attestation, Web Credentials for your verified age-of-maturity, etc. on a non-rooted device... and then the cyberpunk web where people running their own unofficial gear will be.
I wonder if one could do Anti-Secure-Attestation, like, only allow connections from rooted devices? Back to proving root by running a service on the good old sub-1024 ports?
> I wonder if one could do Anti-Secure-Attestation, like, only allow connections from rooted devices?
Just ask the person to say a naughty word, I guess?
If nobody actually sees an AI saying a bad word, is it saying it?
The N950[0] was literal perfection. I had multiple friends who rand self-hosted servers on retired N900's :D
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N950
>I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
That's probably what I would do but that's also why the iphone beat the crap out of Nokia, because that example of what you did with the N900 is a 1% of 1% of what users would use their phones for back then, and Steve Jobs knew it so he won consumers over with a pleasant and simple UX that lacked features instead of piling on Power User features that nobody would use.
You're not gonna sell too many phone if your target userbase is those who know what BitTorrent is and how to use it on their Linux phone.
Such Power User focused niche devices are only financially viable for small companies to develop and sell, but you can't keep a company the size of Nokia in business by only catering to Linux phone enthusiasts.
Their demise was inevitable at that point no matter what they did.
Back then, absolutely. But the long tail of the Internet, which is far more pervasive these days compared to back then, means that such a device could exist. Which arguably it does, with the GPD win max 2, if you install Linux on it.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2467566.The_Long_Tail
>means that such a device could exist
That was never the problem. The problem was how could Nokia stay competitive to Apple and Google when their focus was selling Linux devices aimed power users.
I owned the N9. This was a phone which was perfectly good also for average users, and it seems it sold very well in the few markets where it was actually sold (sadly no major markets). But when it came to the market, it was already decided that Nokia will kill their own OS development in favor of Windows Phone, which then flopped spectacularly. A decision which many people called out for being stupid before the consequences had fully unfolded.
>This was a phone which was perfectly good also for average users
Not good enough to save it from the iPhone onslaught.
People on HN make this mistake to assume that they represent the "average user", the same mistake Steve Wozniak made. No, the average user wasn't interested in all the features of the N9. They much preferred the simpler iPhone and the proof is in the pudding.
>and it seems it sold very well in the few markets where it was actually sold
How do you know it sold well when Nokia never release official sales numbers for the N9?
Estimates put the N9 at less than 1 million sales in the 23 markets it was sold in. A drop in the ocean compared to total iPhone sales of the same timeframe in same 23 regions which estimate at 50 million total. Face it, the N9 was a sales flop no matter how you try to spin this, and launching in more markets would not have moved the needle significantly to make a dent in the iPhone.
>(sadly no major markets)
It launched in 23 markets mate, mostly EMEA and Asia. Not NA because even Nokia leadership realized the N9 won't stand a chance to compete with the iPhone and Blackberry on their home turf.
>A decision which many people called out for being stupid before the consequences had fully unfolded.
Nokia was already dead man walking even before that. Even their own employees said so when they got to play with the first iPhone in their HQ. The N9 was the band playing on the decks on the Titanic.
Blaming Nokia's inevitable failure on Windows Phone is historical revisionism. They would have failed either way since they lacked the software ecosystem beyond the phone that Apple and Google offered their users.
Fanboys praising the N9 as something that would have magically saved Nokia even they have done X or Y or Z with various Linux spins, are huffing some top end copium.
A million sales (I heard 1-2 million) for N9 are very good, considering that smartphone sales were in the millions at that time and that it was not sold in the US, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Spain etc. and had no marketing. Wikipedia says the original iPhone sales were 6 million in the first year which is a better comparison than the 93 million of total sales for 5 years for several iPhone generations. I think the "dead man" walking story is an interpretation which is not rooted in any hard fact. It is based on the idea that nothing can beat the iPhone, which is demonstrably wrong because Android did. And compared to Android (also a Linux phone), the N9 was definitely much better. But I also point out that far from everybody considered the iPhone impressive. In Europe initial sales for the iPhone were also not good.
In contrast the explanation I have for Nokia's failure gives a logical explanation: They panicked, prematurely declared thir existing phones obsolete, cancelled there next-gen development such as N9, and instead offered a poorer product (Windows Phone) at a later time. It is difficult to see how this can lead to anything else than failure.
Whether N9 and co. would be successful enough to save them in the long-run is pure speculation, but I see no fundamental why it could not, and it was ready at a time where Nokia was still big enough to get some app developers on board.
My N900 (Made in Finland, an early one) was great. I would have used it still if it wasn't for the fact that after 3G disappeared it was useless. The battery could be replaced (as others have mentioned), so it was perfectly fine still. Mechanically it was as good as new as well.
As it was basically like Debian Linux inside I could do what I usually do - write hobby projects and run it on the N900. I had my minicomputer emulator running. Nice to see my old favourite minicomputer editor on my N900.
Have you seen the GPD pocket 4? There's a 4G option, but unfortunately not one for 5G (yet?)
https://www.gpd-minipc.com/products/gpd-micropc2
Gosh I loved my Nokia N9. Such an amazing little phone, and it's depressing a little that I can't use them anymore where I live
Here's what I don't get: why can't we have a modern one? It doesn't need to blow flagship smartphones out of the water. It doesn't even need to have a GSM baseband – I'd rather just connect through my "normal" smartphone than deal with all the complications of having a whole extra computer in there.
Surely this is getting close to realizable by hobbyists or a niche company?
This is absolutely doable by a niche company. The problem is that you need to run this as a business. What plagues every free/open/libre project is that they're not run as a business; so they get distracted in all different directions trying to cater to ideals about free/libre licensing and so on, and end up missing the big picture.
You need to operate this as a business first, with the freedom part being a nice bonus. Nobody cares how free your thing is if it's dead on arrival and gets beaten by an entry-level smartphone.
Make a competitive product. Nowadays that could very well just mean Android with manufacturer-sanctioned root access and preinstalled terminal & X/wayland server for those who want to run desktop apps.
The Jolla phone someone linked below actually looks like a decent product. The Android app support means it's actually usable in the modern world, and the specs look competitive.
> "You need to operate this as a business first, [...] Make a competitive product."
Not only that, but you should not get suckered down into overcomplicating things by chasing complex novelties, e. g. integrated slider- or clamshell-implemented keyboards, silly and outdated form factors (clamshell UMPCs, OQO already showed the way), etc.
You want a good, small keyboard? Design it to be attachable. This is possible in a variety of ways and can be adapted to your manufacturing expertise. It also leaves open third-party hardware support for your device. Not to mention maintainability/repairability. It's utterly puzzling to me how many hardware start-ups already fuck up the basics.
And never forget: In a satured market, even catering to a niche, means you should go for a somewhat unique feature set. How many ultramobile devices are out there that are truly accessible and usable? That goes beyond just safety or repairability.
OLED screen? I'd rather prefer something PWM-free. Precision control? Digitizer/stylus support. You don't even need to house the stylus in the device. But it would be very useful to have at least one. Audio? Yeah, 3.5 mm is a must. Dedicated, easy-access mSD (Express) card slot? Yes, please. Exchangeable batteries? Good idea, as long as it's a standard design in good supply. Kill switches. Maybe a modular camera set up like those Chinese flagships that are otherwise rather useless. Full-feature connectivity (1-2 x USB 4). Etc.
> You want a good, small keyboard? Design it to be attachable.
Get one of the BB + USB-C keyboards available.
Maybe you're right. But at the same time I feel (based on nothing) that even the performance of an entry-level Android phone, coupled with libre hardware and software, and a tiny little keyboard like the N900's, running an ordinary Linux distro, actually would find a market. A small market made up of us weirdos who find this HN thread interesting.
But then again, experience shows I'm wrong.
A bit on the larger size, but this already exists: https://www.gpd.hk/gpdpocket
I recommend against GPD, since they're from Hong Kong / China and their warranty is terrible.
If you do decide to buy one, the hardware (of the Pocket 2 at least) is OK. Easy to open and such. You can even buy replacement battery. Buy one from Amazon in EU if you can, they have to provide 2 years warranty, at least.
A small laptop which needs wifi? And?
Have you seen the Jolla preorder? It was on hn a few days ago. That is the spiritual successor of the N9XX line.
https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-phone-preorder
I don't see any keyboard or stylus in that Jolla.
For me that is not even in the same league than the N900.
There is the Gemini PDA from 2018 which has a physical keyboard. I heard it was mostly a disappointment.
There was another phone with keyboard around the same time, but I forgot the name. That was claimed to be very much in the spirit of the N950 and its cancelled follow-up, the Nokia Lauta.
All with Sailfish, the spiritual successor of Meamo/Meego from Nokia.
Mostly a disappointment? The keyboard is fantastic. I can tell because I have a Cosmo Communicator (successor with 4G) and Astro Slide (successor with slide mechanic and 5G). The keyboard of these is great, but... they got barely no support, and the company who build these is like AWOL. Either way, like the GPD Pocket series, the keyboard is larger compared to the Nokia N900 (3G) and Nokia N810 (WLAN only)
> There was another phone with keyboard around the same time, but I forgot the name. That was claimed to be very much in the spirit of the N950 and its cancelled follow-up, the Nokia Lauta.
Probably F(x)tec and their successors. Those have a similar small keyboard as Nokia N900 and Nokia N810
There's also the Hackberry. This device uses a real Blackberry keyboard, with custom firmware. It works together with a 3D printed case, and a RPi CM5. This keyboard, while small, is very ergonomic.
I loved my N9. But i'm somewhat hesitant on preordering that one. I need wireless charging.. And i still dont really get if Android-apps actually work or not, i.e. swedish Bank-Id/Swish etc.
I'd actually prefer one running a normal Linux. It's a travesty that certain things in daily life require Android or iOS, and that's a fight I'll keep fighting, but the idea of a tiny Linux laptop in my pocket is just so tempting.
Sure i can join you on the barricade, but i still want to function in a society :(
Sure. And for that I plan to keep a sterile second phone with the stuff that requires that.
Here you can see Sailfish OS banking app compatibility: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/banking-apps-on-sailfish-os/1...
You can have another device for your banking.
I think this is the way. The Jolla device does have some Android compatibility layers, but I am sure banking apps will not like that.
It's excciting, but I saw a review of a pre-release c2 on youtube [0] the other day, and it seemed extremely slow in the interactions. Otherwise, it seems like a cool device.
[0] https://youtu.be/5titW5dclwg
The C2 is a different device than the new one linked above, which was way more affordable (~250 Euro) with a 4G Unisoc SoC.
Promising! Thanks!
I haven't, and I don't need one, but I'm going to buy one anyway (though its likely not allowed on Australia networks sigh)
Planet Computers Gemini? Or their Cosmo Communicator? (To be fair they’re more Psion 5-sized.)
Or do you remember the Beepberry/Beeper?
OTOH, your phone is more than capable, so maybe a small bluetooth keyboard is all you really need. There are apps like iSH on iOS or Termux on Android that give you a Linux shell.
Because banking apps will not want to run on it, basically.
I'm not sure that has to be a deal breaker. I'd be happy to have the banking apps on an old iphone I left at home.
It was such an incredible phone. Easily rivaled the iPhones of the time and was light-years beyond any Android.
Not directed at you, but what kind of person would [flag] and [dead] the other reply to your comment? Talk about not having a life!
As for the N9, it still has the most modern and beautiful GUI of any smart device, 15 years after being discontinued. It will take at least 15 more years for iOS or Android to reach that level, if ever. The physical design was also very nice and refined.
For those who don't believe me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCFNXhiFnKY
I always thought that flagging would get the comment put into a review queue (one that would put even your ability to flag at risk), but it seems that mass flagging gets you an automated flagkill of late. People can get flagkilled for not sufficiently loving particular products or for not being orthorexic enough.
As for the N900, I just wanted one or two more hardware iterations (the design flaws were annoying, and a couple mentioned in the OP.) The N9 looked great, but I couldn't get over the loss of the keyboard (although of course that was our dictated future.) The Meego transition seemed unnecessary and annoying (not the UI changes, but everything else), especially the move to rpms from debs. They were just hostile to Debian mainline for some reason; if they had been less hostile, their work would have survived without a break even after Elop intentionally tanked the company. That proprietary moat is just irresistible.
iOS and Android literally grabbed the designers of Maemo/Meego and WebOS to update their horrible UIs. Back then, they were still even refusing to multitask. Android copied WebOS almost exactly.
>Not directed at you, but what kind of person would [flag] and [dead] the other reply to your comment? Talk about not having a life!
Going by the username having a near slur in it. Probably that.
[flagged]
N9, not the N900! Meego Harmattan was so much nicer for day to day usage
My favorite story to tell friends about District 9 is how the first two times I watched it at home, my version did not have subtitles at all - so I was always so confused by the alien monologue scenes.
It wasn’t until I was at a friends home who had it playing in the background, I glanced at the TV and jokingly said I wish we knew what the aliens were saying…lo and behold, there’s subtitles.
It wasn't just a phone, it was a little pocket computer that assumed you were allowed to solve your own problems
Same here. I miss my N900 dearly. It was one of my most expensive items at the time, and I enjoyed this device more than the Galaxy S I9000.
It had the best slide-out keyboard of all the phones, nice and rubbery keys. Super smooth sliding motion.
It also had a FM Transmitter (not just Receiver), so I could blast audio in my first car back then without struggling with bluetooth kits & audio cable (neither was standard).
It also had an infra-red transmitter that was programmable, so you could use it as a remote in certain circumstances.
It the time, the 32GB storage was absolutely massive for a phone.
It also had stereo speakers & a kick-stand, so you could watch a movie on it without issues.
I really miss this phone & era. Maemo OS could've owned the market today, as at the time it was much better than early Androids. Nokia messed up so hard after this, the N9 was shitty in comparison.
Amazing! One time I did something similar. Went to see a movie that was dubbed in Spanish, so I downloaded the movie in English and extracted the audio ahead of time, then I played it on my phone wearing headphones while watching the movie (had to pause/play to adjust timing a few times in the beginning, but after that it was great)
I was always kind of dissuaded by the chunky, bar of soap nature of the Nokia devices. (But then again, I had a few OpenPandora to play with as well..)
I had high hopes for the Creative Labs Zii Egg back in those days, it seemed to me to be a better Linux-based phone-like device. What a world it was...
To me it was also a huge disappointment. I had the N810 and it was amazing, I still have it. I wish I could get a new board for it. But the N900 was all cheap plastic, no metal like the 810, the magnets fell out all the time, the software was janky, and several promised features never arrived. It could have been awesome, but Nokia had already been distracted in their 5 device plan that the N900 was part of. We never got the follow up and Maemo was abandoned.
It is amazing Nokia missed on the mobile revolution as n900 predated iPhone if I remember correctly.
But Nokia did one massive mistake and it was to bet on Linux for this device. Even when they already had lot of Symbian experience, which also was week though when it came to user apps.
The modified BSD on the first iPhones was simply blazingly fast.
Linux was not a mistake on these devices. And I say that as the foremost hater of open source and Linux you can find around here. In fact, the N9 Linux phone was a huge success among everyday people in several countries. Farmers, teenagers, everybody got an N9. You couldn't go to any small party without at least two people having the N9 phone. Everybody loved them. It was in no way a hacker device for nerds.
What killed these Linux phones was Microsoft doing a hostile takeover of Nokia. The owners of Nokia felt they couldn't compete with Apple's iPhone and decided to scuttle their business and transfer out as much money as possible to their own offshore accounts in the Pacific before the company going belly up. I think they could have competed if they weren't such cowards.
Microsoft did take over Nokia much later than the N900. In fact, Nokia lost value after iPhone showed, and it is only when MS could take over it. And the Android is a side effect of the fact that the .NET was not ready to run existing phones, and Microsoft decided to release the WindowsPhone as non-Nokia branded one.
My BSD statement stays, though, MS did some very good work with the WinPhones, and in fact they were super snappy and useful, very close to what iPhones were at the time. And let's not forget, that the flat looks of (not sure which macos) was directly influenced by these winphones...
N9, not N900. Microsoft took over right before the N9 launch and instantly discontinued any further support for the platform. The "burning platform" as Elop called it.
> You couldn't go to any small party without at least two people having the N9 phone. Everybody loved them. It was in no way a hacker device for nerds.
I don't think I ever saw N9 or any of the N9XX phones in real life.
The N9 was not sold in any major country. I ordered mine from Poland (from the US at that time).
The underlying OS makes no difference.
BSD and Linux are the same thing. That's the whole point of Posix.
What made the difference for the iPhone was that Apple's most expensive part of the whole device was the design. At the point it came out they had something like 23 years of very high end UX under their collective belts. It's one of the reasons why the little 128k Mac that came out the same year as the clunky old IBM PC AT was so expensive, too.
Good design is expensive, and it's the most important thing you'll spend money on.
Remember earlier in the week, all the discussion of Damn Small Linux and how a lot of the conversation around its UI was along the lines of "But I like it without all the wasteful whitespace" contrasted with "The whitespace at least needs to be consistent and the widgets need to look like they weren't thrown from the far side of a barn"?
Good design of the packaging has nothing to do with underlying OS, unless say it overheats a lot. TBH, the N900 had a fair design, I've used one, not talking from a bystander view, and it was good indeed. Save for the keyboard that perhaps costs 30% the device in order to be where it was (sliding and all). But also, the Nokia Nx's were slow as hell compared to iOS.
> The underlying OS makes no difference. perhaps you've never experienced the bliss after setting up a BSD that just works 10 years after... and have never experienced the incredibly stable and snappy multiprocessing this miracle of a kernel (and OS) exhibits for decades now.
Let me tell you something - 20 years ago Linux was slow and unstasble as shit, and even slower on embedded. On the other hand FreeBSD and other BSD-derivates were super stable, but took more effort to setup and work with. They did not have the UI though, what Apple did was to wire their half-baked NeXT-inherited GUI on top of it and it flied.
I'm not even going to comment on the abomination called ObjectiveC, but matter of fact - the underlying OS workings were done in a brilliant way, WHICH, more than everything else enabled all the glitter tossed over the UI that you guys love so much. Like, there's a reason for game engines being written in C++ and not Python, right? Still a programming language though...
Sure lot of people adore what Sir Jony Ive did to the overall look and packaging of these products, and for a reason. But what truly distinguishes all these Mac products is what they can get out the hardware.
Sorry, but win3.11 did not work well on a 128kb RAM device. I've followed everything MS released since DOS 3.30 and witnessed firsthand the evolution of Linux and many of the distros. Nothing comes close to what Apple could do and is still doing with their hardware/software. No matter if you like Tim Cook (me personally - not) or Steve Jobs (very inspiring guy).
One of the reasons MacOS could draw attention from developers, who now form very important part of the user-base, is the fact they have a Unix-like thing at their disposal, and a very fast unix-like thing with some sort of a not-so-disgusting UI (wait for MacOS 26 though).
Nobody cares about darn window shadows, edges, or the unreasonable animation effects that we'd be turning off sooner or later.
Good god no.
The iPhone was out two years ago before the N900.
Nokia was already fucked because it had set up a system in which internal divisions designed competing phones, as a result it had flooded the market with similar but-not-quite-the-same handsets with overlapping features, and it had missed out on usability advances that iOS had made.
Symbian was undergoing an overhaul which would eventually lead it to be ’good’ again, but by then it was too late as Android and iOS were already eating its lunch. And around the time of the N9 launch (touchscreen-only Maemo/meego phone), Stephen Elop took the helm and issued the famous “burning platforms” memo which put Nokia on the path to windows phone exclusivity, purely to the benefit of Microsoft, who delivered the killing blow by first forcing the doomed “Windows Phone” onto them, then buying the mobile phone division so MS could churn out more doomed handsets for their stillborn mobile platform.
tl;dr - The company was a clusterfuck riding on name recognition and then an MS plant killed it.
Linux on the N900 was neither here nor there. It was a skunkwork effectively, a niche device for nerds (and a great one). But it neither sank the company nor could have saved it.
The N9 could have saved the company in my opinion. It was great. I had it for some years before it broke and then found the Android I had afterwards to be poor compared to it.
The happy ending is that MS took the brunt of the disaster. :-)
A bigger mistake was to not give the N770, N800, etc. phone capabilities. I was buying a new phone around that time, and thought those devices looked cool; but I couldn't even consider them, because they couldn't do basic calls or SMS. They fixed that with the N900, but had lost their head-start.
perhaps because phone capabilities require more chips, and SDR that would've made the N800/N900 too pricey. but, honestly, this thing was slow as shit, I loved the design so much, and hated this half-baked Debian equally.
The fact you could run apt on it did not help that much for the regular user.
> I installed a BitTorrent client, found the release on Pirate Bay, successfully torrented just the subtitle file, and used an editor to read the subtitles for scenes with a lot of alien.
... while you were on the movies? That's "Mr Robot" level, kudos!
I remember when the N900 came out other phones including the iPhone could not process a web page with AJAX or most javascript and Flash. It truly gave you a desktop experience on a phone. You could open a terminal and ssh into a server or do whatever you want. Another funny thing people forget: It had another Finnish company's game for it that later became wildly successful: Rovio Angry Birds
I think Stellarium got its mobile start on N900 as well.
Web browsing wasn't a particular strength of it. I remember the N900's browser came with a version of Gecko around a year old by the time. Flash support was a downside. And of course, contemporary iPhones ran circles around it in smoothness.
I seem to recall they received criticism for going with gecko when the rest of the industry was getting behind WebKit.
I have such fond memories of the Nokia N810.
I did my master’s thesis on that device. I had a custom hypervisor running a guest kernel, virtualized networking, and a buildroot userspace. I could SSH into the host N810, then SSH into the guest. I even virtualized the framebuffer at some point and got the “dancing baby” animation playing from the guest. It only ran at a couple frames per second, but it was _amazing_.
The only weird thing about it was that you couldn't charge a fully empty N810 with the micro(?) usb charger. It'd charge just enough to boot and then crash again, because it couldn't wake up far enough to negotiate a higher current with the charger.
Had to use a barrel plug to charge it.
Spent a very nervous and sweaty day figuring that out when I bought one used with no warranty or returns and it didn't boot properly =)
It sure is a weird thing, but yes, the first mobile devices that shipped with USB didn't really know how to charge off it.
Which, to be fair to them, usb was never supposed to be a power delivery standard (at least not more than the 5 volts needed to power a mouse)
And now pretty much all of the portable devices in my house can be charged with 5V/2A USB :D
I find the BL-5J battery format and its siblings quite cool actually. They fit much better for some projects than a 18650 etc. I wish there where more standard sized batteries and PCB holder for batteries like the BL-5J. While I can get many 18650 battery holders for PCBs even surface mount I have not seen anything more compact.
I'm just wondering if there is any real modern pocket cyberdeck with the form factor of those old phones, with a slide out physical keyboard.
The folk who left Psion tried to resurrect the Psion 3/5 form factor a few times as an Android phone with a fairly decent keyboard, but I don’t think they’re still around (or that it’s cheap enough to justify getting one).
Seem to still be around!
https://store.planetcom.co.uk/collections/all
I think the F(x)tec Pro1 might fit the bill, but getting it to run real linux might be a challenge.
Planet Computers Astro Slide 5G also sounds like it could work.
I had an n800 in college (it wasn't a phone, it was an "internet tablet"). _Loved_ that thing.
There are DOZENS OF US!
Picture me in 2007. "The iPhone. Psh. Like I'm going to switch to Cingular and pay thirty dollars for a data plan!" (Keep in mind that's $47 in today's dollars!)
I would use my N800 and Bluetooth-tether to my Verizon flip phone when on the go. It was mildly useful for things like LiveJournal and I'm sure the Twitter of that time would have worked on whatever browser Maemo had. But I had to admit by 2008 that I wanted a smartphone instead of this second device with a stylus.
In those days though, browsing the web as though you were on a desktop was thought to be the goal to aspire to. Even the iPhone launched with the default behavior in Safari being showing whole desktop webpages, and you zoomed in to the parts you wanted to use. It took a year or two for people to figure out 'responsive' and within 4 years most sites were starting to be designed for small portrait screens. At that point the landscape N800 style was at a disadvantage since the mobile sites being designed to be a little leaner, were the wrong layout, but the desktop sites were pretty heavy for a mobile device to handle. And as "apps" ate the world that probably put the final nail on our little N-series.
I remember running around campus looking for WiFi hotspots with my N810, using Google Voice to text my friends ($0.10 per text, no thank you!). Learned so much Linux admin skills that became so useful later in life. Favorite device ever! Eventually moved to Android smartphones but the ease of hacking, the amazing community (internettablettalk.com, looks like its gone now :( unfortunately...)
You could always get something like a PinePhone.
Back in the day I just had a cheap dumb phone with the $15/mo unlimited 3G data add-on and popped that SIM into whatever other device I was feeling at the time. It seemed like if it wasn't a common phone in the US, Cingular/AT&T never noticed.
On the software side there is an Argentinian (I believe) artist who actively uses blender on Nokia N95s, you can even connect a projector to it. Absolutely blew my mind when I saw it.
https://blenderartists.org/t/blendersito-is-a-blender-clone-...
> A quick glance at the forums also confirms that USB port was poorly designed and is prone to breaking.
That was the death of mine. I had an external battery charger that I could use to charge the machine overnight, but it was too much of a hassle so it got recycled and I moved on to a Galaxy Note, which everyone laughed at for being enormous but now look at us, the base iPhone 17 is around the same size...
The N900 was a great little device, it was like having a tiny computer with full keyboard in my pocket. It's just a shame the built-in FM transmitter didn't work reliably, because I used it to listen to music in the car a lot.
It was also amazing to be able to download the whole world's map data (such as it was in 2010) to the device, so the GPS navigation still worked off-grid (deep-outback Australia in 2010 was not always that good for data connections).
I still have an N800-tough, it still works. It even holds a five day charge. This is from after the reboot, it runs linux and so far it has been ultra reliable. I have an older one as well that still works but this one is just a little more useful (it can serve as a wifi access point).
Nokia was so cool, before Android only SoCs swamped everything and it became impossible to run normal upstream Linux stack on phones because no one provides open drivers for a whole bunch of stuff.
Yes, the alternative universe had Nokia board not hired Elop.
N810, N900, N9 owner here.
Good read. I did the exact same modification to my N900; it was my internet router for several years. In those days, a mobile carrier in my country offered a relatively cheap data plan for dumb phones: unlimited data, but restricted internet connectivity with a WAP proxy. Fortunately, thanks to curl and busybox utils, I figured out that the proxy allowed CONNECT requests, and a tiny C program on my N900 was able to transparently tunnel all TCP connections to the internet.
BTW, my N900 had another mod: it featured a Type-A female port :)
I was a huge N9 fanboy. Wish I didn't sell mine, and that Microsoft didn't kill it :)
N900 remains the best phone I've ever owned. Learnt so much with it.
I had one of these around 2011! Used it to host a websocket server - a novelty at the time - during a conference talk, and it held up to 30+ clients before dying.
Oh I miss this era of early smartphones. My life for a physical slide out keyboard on the iPhone.
There is so much love for the n900 and the n950.
Yet still there is not true successor, although I would expect that producing things like this became cheaper in the recent years.
Same HN niche that wants smaller iPhones, just not commercially viable they say.
N9000 was so ahead of it's time.
No, it belonged to an alternative universe - and, arguably, a better one.
My N900 was one of my favorite computing devices that I've owned. The keyboard was good enough for my needs, I could open a terminal quickly, battery life was fine. If someone came out with a modern version that had a slide out keyboard and similar size, maybe running a raspberry-pi level CPU, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Man, I miss my N80ie. The towns I lived in didn’t get UMTS/3G until the ‘10s, but the EDGE radios were enough. Loved Symbian, miss it.
My first Internet phone was the Nokia 9000, which was limited to GSM (9600bps). I built and debugged one of the first major music streaming services on that connection because I was working remote and my DSL got cut off. I had to add a 2Kbps stream option to the production servers for myself just so I could test it.
is this the phone Val Kilmer had in the movie The Saint? badass phone
Yes! I was so excited he had that phone in the movie.
They even include an owner in-joke, which means someone in the production must have owned one of these phones. Everyone I lent the phone to would pick it up the "wrong" way -- they would put the external screen to their face, like every other phone. But the mic and speaker were on the back. I had to quickly find the scene in the movie here:
https://imgur.com/a/hojf5DZ
N900 has nothing to do with Symbian.
Fortunately - Symbian was painful. It was designed with a half-baked C++ standard and devices with 1-2 MB of RAM in mind and apparently never thoroughly upgraded.
I recall there was a project to revive the N900 with modern internals, anyone know what happened to it?
There was Neo900, abandoned in 2018. The site is still up though: https://neo900.org/#main
It wasn't really abandoned so much as killed by PayPal.
The project used PayPal to gather downpayments, PayPal decided to lock the funds for months (almost a year or maybe longer IIRC) because they saw money coming in but no confirmation of goods coming out. And, you know, when it comes to big companies, no explanation is sufficient, you are guilty of something because some heuristic said so, so the funds were locked, legal threats didn't work (try threatening a company with the power of a small/medium country), and by the time they got their money back, key people who were going to work at a discount to cover key milestones had moved on.
This seems like weird revisionist history or I missed something. I never got a dime back that I spent on the Neo900, which I assumed they spent on their personal lifestyles and travel while trying and failing to design and manufacture a board.
If there was actually a holdup of funds that killed the project, and eventually the funds were released, that's an even worse story. I didn't think there could be a worse story. It would mean that the project fell apart while they were waiting on cash, then when they got it they just treated it like a personal windfall. IIRC I ended up out $1.5K on the thing.
Paypal released the funds to the project, not to the people making the downpayments. Paypal never returns money immediately to anyone, they sit on it for months while they "investigate".
I don't know who you are or where you were but the paypal problems were pretty well announced and _I_ was there. The project was already facing delays because a key person who was needed to make the board layouts was held up with the also now dead DragonBox Pyra handheld.
I have no idea where you think the money went, how much you think there was, but it was a constant game of trying to drum up enough activity to gain attention of potential customers to bring in enough down-payments to pay the salaries of the small number of people working on the project while having enough money to buy parts. The money went into salaries, parts, nobody bought hookers or blow with it, and certainly nobody got anything but stress out of that project in the end. I believe Joerg Reisenweber paid a lawyer out of pocket to try to get PayPal to release the funds.
Probably not practical. Definitely not advisable. But deeply satisfying to read.
To quote someone from Hackaday:
> We don't ask "why?", we ask "why not?"
Man I really wanted the N900 so badly, my first real smartphone. But I decided to skip N900, because I was sure that the N901 (or whatever) was going to be insane good and I wanted to not spend the money yet.
Sadly, that day never came ...
That's not a Necromancy, that's rather a Dr. Frankenstein's creature.
Can someone explain the use of super capacitors here? Do they function as a battery?
It's because the phone design needs the battery to help stabilize the voltage under load. As we know, digital devices can nearly instantaneously change the amount of current they consume and thus require layers of energy storage to accommodate the transient currents quickly. However, the changing current consumption doesn't just happen briefly. It sometimes continues to ramp for more than milliseconds (a glacial time frame for modern electronics). Thus generally every component in the power supply network of a design serves some stabilization and filtering role, including the batteries.
It appears that in this case, as the original battery aged, its internal apparent resistance (ESR) increased beyond the original design expectations, to a point where the phone won't work when plugged in to a charging cable because despite the charging cable most likely being able to deliver sufficient power at DC, it had too much impedance to supply it quickly enough. When current is demanded from a source that has too high impedance to supply it, the voltage drops. This will result in significant voltage ripple to the power supply of the digital circuits, which can cause logic to not function correctly.
Adding a large capacitor basically replaced the filtering and stabilization role of the original battery.
Interestingly people often intentionally remove capacitors for side channel measurements and glitching attacks.
Fascinating, thanks for explaining! I had assumed it was just that capacitors were easier to get hold of than batteries, and that the author was just putting up with a reduced "battery" life as a result. It makes sense to replace with capacitors if they're just using it for always-powered static applications -- probably with much lower fire risk to boot.
The best phone I have ever owned! Running linux you could do so much including hacking wifi. The keyboard was great and the pop out camera for video calls was fun to use.
Oh I had that phone I recall trying very hard to browse to the Landon website while driving just to play some music heh.
I recall having to spin with my finger in a spiral to zoom in.
It’s a damn shame the Neo900 never happened :(
Even after all these years, my n900 has been my favourite phone.
I wanted an N900 so bad when it came out. A buddy of mine had one, but I had recently purchased a new iPhone. I couldn't justify switching at that point.
Buddy, just buy a replacement battery https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=BL-5J
I looked, but TBH, not sure what to make of "genuine" and "OEM" claims for a battery for a 16–year-old device (or 10-year-old if you count compatible Lumias). Descriptions usually do not mention manufacture dates either.
> not sure what to make of "genuine" and "OEM" claims for a battery for a 16–year-old device
They're lies, but the batteries work. There were Chinese lines manufacturing knockoff BL-5Js, and there may still be one or two, or just a bunch of crates filled with old ones. Source: still use an N900, but just for podcasts.
> 10-year-old if you count compatible Lumias
Worse, those Lumia BL-5Js aren't actually compatible. The slots cut into the battery aren't wide enough to fit into the N900. Unless you're willing to cut apart the battery itself, they're useless.
Pretty impressive. I have one of those (or related) around, might give this a go even if Maemo always ran like molasses.
Did it? I mean, even when you compare it to its contemporary devices (it took a while for Android to get close to smooth animations and fluid navigation, even without the type of true compositing and multitasking the n900 had).
Seeing htop running reminds me of Pine64 PPP ahhh fun to mess around with but eventually I sold em
I loved my N900. Enough that I eventually replaced it with an N9. It wasn't the same, tho. The N900 had a certain charm.
It wasn't the same, but I had both and really loved the N9. My all-time favourite phone.
Oh, I wish I could do something like that for my Nokia N800.
Seeing this makes me wanna get the Blackberry passport!!! And boot linux on it
Check out the Hackberry designs from ZitaoTech. They're pretty amazing. I'm currently in the process of porting Plasma Mobile onto the device so that there's a better UI for it.
[1] https://github.com/ZitaoTech/HackberryPiCM5
that was an enjoyable read! loved reading stuff about smartphones on forums, especially symbian ones where the die hard fanboys absoultely believed that this device was better than the iphones and htcs had to offer (including me). too bad maemo / meego died off, we may have seen more interesting devices. loved the "Contains no LLM-generated content" bit.
Thanks!
Maemo Leste is still around, I just tried it on a PinePhone with a keyboard not too long ago.
It's not postmarketOS with a popular DE nor Android, but has a terminal, browser, media player, et.
Good article i enjoyed it.
Best phone ever made
I still have one in a drawer from when I worked at Nokia around 2009. Great device. I also had the N800 before that.
What made them interesting wasn't the hardware, though the full keyboard on the N900 was useful but the fact that it was Linux phone based on Debian complete with the ability to apt-get install whatever the hell you wanted. Including compilers, developer tools, openssh, and whatever you could think of.
The big difference between the N800 and the N900 was that the N800 was more of a tablet form factor (released years before the ipad or the iphone were a thing). The N900 was smaller and had a proper phone built in. It could connect to mobile networks and make phone calls. The N800 was by operator decree basically crippled to be wifi only. Operators absolutely hated the notion of an open platform like Linux running on devices connected to their networks.
The victory Steve Jobs imposed on operators was basically getting them to beg on their knees if he would please allow iphones on their networks. He completely turned the tables on them. The first iphones were exclusive to some networks only and people cancelled their subscriptions if they were on the wrong network. That's why iMessage is a thing and SMS texts are a thing that is no longer generating meaningful amounts of revenue for operators. There was no off switch for iMessage. Steve Jobs basically told operators to take it or leave it. Likewise MMS was not a thing on the first iphone. Nokia mistook that as a fatal omission. A missing feature. The truth was that MMS was dead as a doornail the moment 3G internet connectivity became a thing. Why have operators act as a middle man? Steve Jobs had no patience for any of that.
Anyway, Nokia still obeyed the operators and it ended up crippling anything with software potential. There were big discussions about having Skype on these things. The N800 had that. And a webcam. You could make video calls with it. In 2007. The N900 did not have Skype. And it was positioned as a developer phone. Worse, it had to compete internally with Symbian and the Symbian team was in control of the company.
So, it was positioned as a developer phone and the N9 was launched (2011) similarly crippled in the same week that they shut down the entire team working on the OS. That was around the time Symbian lost out to Windows Phone and the beginning of the implosion of Nokia's phone division.
The key point here is that Nokia had an Android competitor long before Google launched the Nexus. Before they had the Nexus, they were dual booting N800s into Android. I flashed mine with a development build at some point even. Nokia screwed up the huge chance they had there long before the iphone was about to launch. The N770 launched late 2005. The iphone wasn't even announced until 2007.
Nokia did not understand what it had and crippled the platform instead. And then it dropped out of the market completely.
> What made them interesting wasn't the hardware, though the full keyboard on the N900 was useful but the fact that it was Linux phone based on Debian complete with the ability to apt-get install whatever the hell you wanted.
Such phones exist today, too. Sent from my Librem 5.
Indeed, I had a Freerunner back then (the N900 came out after, and I couldn't get its predecessors since they weren't phones, as the parent points out). It served me well for about a decade, and I've now upgraded to a Pinephone.
> Nokia did not understand what it had
Like any other large company, Nokia needed time to adjust its strategy, whether it would have happened or not we will never know, because Nokia got Trojan horsed by Microsoft killing any plausible competition to windows phone, and the whole phone division as a result. I still find it incredible that it happened just like that.
> There was no off switch for iMessage
There sorta was and still is, just it uses the same endpoint as APN/APS so if any telecom wanted to block it all iphone users on their network would lose push notifications too.
I'm glad telecoms got put in their place, used to be a give them an inch and they'd take a mile type situation. I dont miss their games.
A portable Linux computer that can also act as a phone and has Cyrillic letters on the keyboard? Fucking awesome.
oof that soldering is not pretty, but hey, if it works!