I get how paying somebody adds complication, but "we can't pay you but we can cover your travel, room, and board for these conferences we want you to advocate for us at" would be a much much better sell.
As someone who used to run a similar program and be part of programs like these in the past, I am a bit underwhelmed by the structure of the program.
This is framed like a way to get free labor, and is a PR miss on the company. Ambassador programs work best when you "deputize" community members who are already doing a good job spreading the word and you give them the maximum allowable resources. This is not that, at the minimum I would be giving priority to batches, free test laptops, and access to the engineering team to people already doing the most promoting the Framework ecosystem.
Hoping that they adjust to the feedback, I love my Intel 11th 13 and would hate to see them accrue brand damage.
>This is framed like a way to get free labor, and is a PR miss on the company.
Not only that but it seems they are relying on free advertising tool under the guise of giving someone a shirt or hat.
I too, have a frame work. Heck i was thinking about them in a consideration of our laptop fleet. BUT, im not a fan of branding shirts like that. I tend to wear them in the yard or around the house. Similarly I dont donate to calyx because they give me stickers or shirts, in fact I ususally try to decline those things.
Really hoping OpenSIL isnt dead in the water & that eventually it really is possible to have open init code for client and server Ryzens both. It's unclear what features are missing versus the binary blobs, and I don't think there's client device support, but at least the repo is around, and gets an occasional small update every couple months. I wish there were more signs of this really getting someplace someday. https://github.com/openSIL/openSIL
Yea I hope they can get far enough along to do these. LPCAMM2 might take longer than the others simply because it'll change the form factor of a lot of things so might need a new chassis but I'm definitely looking forward to it taking over in laptops. Coreboot would definitely be nice, the current BIOS/EFI is fairly simple and basic and doesn't support much.
ECC I'd love but I also won't be surprised if it's never supported by Intel or AMD on their mobile processors in any official capacity. Though maybe that'll change going forward.
This is really low for a for-profit company to pull. "We won't pay you, but we will use you to make more money". Jesus, at least pay their conference tickets, hotels or travels.
It really isn’t. It’s as much playing to market dynamics as employment is. The reality is that plenty of influencer wannabes are going to jump at the opportunity to do this. Privileged influencer wannabes, mind you. Let’s not spin this as some Marxist class struggle without first looking at it with some perspective.
I like Framework and their mission but they're not a charity. I think if they want unpaid ambassadors then they should register as a non-profit of some sort.
Maybe us on HN aren't the audience? I could see myself doing this in college for the free conference trips.
If I may, I think the schism of opinion is caused by two things:
1) Those who view Framework as a mission vs. those who view it as a company.
2) The tone of the call-to-action being too formal to differentiate it from an employment opportunity at Framework-the-company.
Many of us remember when Framework’s dream seemed like a moonshot, and many of us rallied behind it and evangelized. Now it seems like Framework “made it” and is successful, so a lot of people have started viewing it as a company rather than a mission. But I think its position is still FAR more precarious than it gets credit for - hardware is a very very difficult business and Framework still only barely has cash to roll out new models. Its still just one small recall or design error away from the edge of failure. Those who see this as an opportunity to help “Framework-the-mission” would be excited for support in doing what they’re likely already doing! It’s cool! It’s fun!
But the original posting makes it hard to view yourself as an independent white knight finally getting recognition from Framework. Many people would hear it as an invitation to become a vassal instead.
I think it would be better received if they had phrased it more like
“Hey! We’ve recognized how so many amazing people have been out and about through the linux conference circuit evangelizing our products! We LOVE your support, it means so much to us, and we want to support you too. Let us know what you’re doing and when you’ll be going to your next linux conferences this year and we’ll do our best to get you some really cool Framework swag to show off and give out to your friends. We’ve already reached out to a number of superfans that we’ve personally seen talking us up at conferences, but wanted to post here to catch anyone we might be missing. If you know someone like this, send them a link to this post so they can get in touch with us. We’re working hard to extend our personal and professional networks throughout the linux community, because we still have so much work to do to open up the hardware as radically as we’d like to. Everything all of you folks do genuinely makes such a huge difference - the long term success of Framework still isn’t guaranteed and we really, truly appreciate all the love and support that you’ve given us. We don’t take it for granted, and while you deserve so much more, we hope this shows you that we see you, we love you for everything you do, and hopefully we can partner together with the linux community on some really cool stuff down the road!”
As a side note, I think huge companies have in the past (and often still do) really abuse this language, but I think it would be fine for Framework. Similarly, plenty of scrappy non-profits and community organizations lean way too far towards “formal business language” when they’re recruiting volunteers — and I think Framework made that mistake here. You may spend 90% of the week as a business leader, but you still have to know when to bring things back down to earth and reach humans where they’re at emotionally. Express to them why they should care.
Also, there is of course always a danger in support $COMPANY-the-mission: many of us remember when OculusRift-the-mission was still all the rage one Monday and by that same Tuesday it had transformed into Oculus the billion dollar Meta acquisition.
This is well said, but amounts to: people don't see this as an investment because they aren't invested. Framework or whatever upstart isn't owed anything, outsiders don't/shouldn't care if it fails. Such is life.
It has a viral nature to it. Almost shaming someone for not supporting them. Anyone on the outside who sees things as you desire is already invested.
Remain objective: it is a company after all. The mission is the sales pitch. The goal is money. Maybe liberty with your devices, but definitely money and all of their salaries.
Said another way: Framework needs the Linux community. They don't need Framework.
My point, if I had one, is The Mission is a great way to gaslight people already doing free work. This is exactly how the "Flagship Killer" OnePlus became part of the problem. Riding communities, weaponized mantras.
I vouched for this comment, was flagged. I understand it can be seen as trite - but if this call to action can advertise, we can reply/mock.
Don't quote the rules/guidelines to me, curious conversation doesn't happen all at once - or look like you think. This is used against dissenting opinion far too much.
I know folks here are partial to the scrappy upstart, but at least confront your bias. I'll share mine, comment sections - am I right? We can talk about them, hopefully amicably.
Criticism is fair, they're attempting PR. The smarter play, IMO, is with the distributions. They're doing this some already with Fedora.
Those people are at the conferences already. Make them your fans. They would love to help and are in the absolute best position to do so.
Framework wants free work from those who believe in the mission, ignoring the larger community - almost cannibalizing their own. They're willing to send stuff sitting on shelves, but not bring on Actual Staff.
The developers and integrators don't need a middleman. The users don't need more evangelism. They found Linux.
Framework wants influencers, advertising, and parasocial relationships. Work paid through exposure and trinkets.
They want people to believe Framework is grassroots/good for Linux. I want them to succeed but don't believe this is the way
As a fan of framework and a customer. It really seems a bit pathetic for them to be trying to get free labor from people. Framework is a standard for-profit company and as such nobody should be doing anything for them for free.
"We will send you merch"
I get how paying somebody adds complication, but "we can't pay you but we can cover your travel, room, and board for these conferences we want you to advocate for us at" would be a much much better sell.
And 3 posts in a minute with basically the same comment. Framework take note.
I get to do free labor AND get branded garbage sent to my house? Sign me up.
Two free jobs? I don't know what I'm going to do with all of this opportunity. /s
Give a few laptops to the distribution maintainers. That'll do more common good than this, because it's marketing.
As someone who used to run a similar program and be part of programs like these in the past, I am a bit underwhelmed by the structure of the program.
This is framed like a way to get free labor, and is a PR miss on the company. Ambassador programs work best when you "deputize" community members who are already doing a good job spreading the word and you give them the maximum allowable resources. This is not that, at the minimum I would be giving priority to batches, free test laptops, and access to the engineering team to people already doing the most promoting the Framework ecosystem.
Hoping that they adjust to the feedback, I love my Intel 11th 13 and would hate to see them accrue brand damage.
>This is framed like a way to get free labor, and is a PR miss on the company.
Not only that but it seems they are relying on free advertising tool under the guise of giving someone a shirt or hat.
I too, have a frame work. Heck i was thinking about them in a consideration of our laptop fleet. BUT, im not a fan of branding shirts like that. I tend to wear them in the yard or around the house. Similarly I dont donate to calyx because they give me stickers or shirts, in fact I ususally try to decline those things.
I would love to see the following:
Then it would be near perfect with Ryzen...Experimental and requires closed binary blobs, but Coreboot 24.05 shipped with some Framework 13 support. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Coreboot-24.05-Released https://www.phoronix.com/news/Framework-13-AMD-Coreboot-WIP
Really hoping OpenSIL isnt dead in the water & that eventually it really is possible to have open init code for client and server Ryzens both. It's unclear what features are missing versus the binary blobs, and I don't think there's client device support, but at least the repo is around, and gets an occasional small update every couple months. I wish there were more signs of this really getting someplace someday. https://github.com/openSIL/openSIL
It is nice that there's open source embedded controller (EC) firmware on the Framework. Would be neat to see users modifying or adding to the EC to interesting ends, or perhaps even replacing it entirely! Oh slick, the EC on Framework 13 & 16 is based on Zephyr real time os (rtos)! https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController https://community.frame.work/t/open-source-ec-for-amd-based-...
cool thanks!
Yea I hope they can get far enough along to do these. LPCAMM2 might take longer than the others simply because it'll change the form factor of a lot of things so might need a new chassis but I'm definitely looking forward to it taking over in laptops. Coreboot would definitely be nice, the current BIOS/EFI is fairly simple and basic and doesn't support much.
ECC I'd love but I also won't be surprised if it's never supported by Intel or AMD on their mobile processors in any official capacity. Though maybe that'll change going forward.
Speakers are my pain point... Although I mostly use headphones, these speakers are just bad.
Lpcamm2 is inevitable in the long run, but doable today as Lenovo shows.
The other features would just be nice to have, but I'd love to see ECC capable CPUs in Notebooks, maybe just very efficient desktop ones!?
I'd much rather see Libreboot support tbh.
> Am I going to be paid?
> Framework Linux Community Ambassadors are not paid, they are volunteers. We will however be sending special merch packages to Ambassadors!
This is really low for a for-profit company to pull. "We won't pay you, but we will use you to make more money". Jesus, at least pay their conference tickets, hotels or travels.
Even then it sucks. How is this different from the skateboarding/snowboarding scene, for example? You wear the brand, so to speak, you get paid.
It really isn’t. It’s as much playing to market dynamics as employment is. The reality is that plenty of influencer wannabes are going to jump at the opportunity to do this. Privileged influencer wannabes, mind you. Let’s not spin this as some Marxist class struggle without first looking at it with some perspective.
Then the market dynamics sucks. Who makes the market? We do.
The messaging is off. Framework is not a non-profit, right? At least IBM paid employees to be linux evangelists.
I like Framework and their mission but they're not a charity. I think if they want unpaid ambassadors then they should register as a non-profit of some sort.
Maybe us on HN aren't the audience? I could see myself doing this in college for the free conference trips.
Yea, but they aren't even covering travel nor conference cost
If I may, I think the schism of opinion is caused by two things:
1) Those who view Framework as a mission vs. those who view it as a company.
2) The tone of the call-to-action being too formal to differentiate it from an employment opportunity at Framework-the-company.
Many of us remember when Framework’s dream seemed like a moonshot, and many of us rallied behind it and evangelized. Now it seems like Framework “made it” and is successful, so a lot of people have started viewing it as a company rather than a mission. But I think its position is still FAR more precarious than it gets credit for - hardware is a very very difficult business and Framework still only barely has cash to roll out new models. Its still just one small recall or design error away from the edge of failure. Those who see this as an opportunity to help “Framework-the-mission” would be excited for support in doing what they’re likely already doing! It’s cool! It’s fun!
But the original posting makes it hard to view yourself as an independent white knight finally getting recognition from Framework. Many people would hear it as an invitation to become a vassal instead.
I think it would be better received if they had phrased it more like
“Hey! We’ve recognized how so many amazing people have been out and about through the linux conference circuit evangelizing our products! We LOVE your support, it means so much to us, and we want to support you too. Let us know what you’re doing and when you’ll be going to your next linux conferences this year and we’ll do our best to get you some really cool Framework swag to show off and give out to your friends. We’ve already reached out to a number of superfans that we’ve personally seen talking us up at conferences, but wanted to post here to catch anyone we might be missing. If you know someone like this, send them a link to this post so they can get in touch with us. We’re working hard to extend our personal and professional networks throughout the linux community, because we still have so much work to do to open up the hardware as radically as we’d like to. Everything all of you folks do genuinely makes such a huge difference - the long term success of Framework still isn’t guaranteed and we really, truly appreciate all the love and support that you’ve given us. We don’t take it for granted, and while you deserve so much more, we hope this shows you that we see you, we love you for everything you do, and hopefully we can partner together with the linux community on some really cool stuff down the road!”
As a side note, I think huge companies have in the past (and often still do) really abuse this language, but I think it would be fine for Framework. Similarly, plenty of scrappy non-profits and community organizations lean way too far towards “formal business language” when they’re recruiting volunteers — and I think Framework made that mistake here. You may spend 90% of the week as a business leader, but you still have to know when to bring things back down to earth and reach humans where they’re at emotionally. Express to them why they should care.
Also, there is of course always a danger in support $COMPANY-the-mission: many of us remember when OculusRift-the-mission was still all the rage one Monday and by that same Tuesday it had transformed into Oculus the billion dollar Meta acquisition.
Much better communication
This is well said, but amounts to: people don't see this as an investment because they aren't invested. Framework or whatever upstart isn't owed anything, outsiders don't/shouldn't care if it fails. Such is life.
It has a viral nature to it. Almost shaming someone for not supporting them. Anyone on the outside who sees things as you desire is already invested.
Remain objective: it is a company after all. The mission is the sales pitch. The goal is money. Maybe liberty with your devices, but definitely money and all of their salaries.
Said another way: Framework needs the Linux community. They don't need Framework.
My point, if I had one, is The Mission is a great way to gaslight people already doing free work. This is exactly how the "Flagship Killer" OnePlus became part of the problem. Riding communities, weaponized mantras.
At the very least they could refund your money for the computer.
Am I gonna get paid? No.
I vouched for this comment, was flagged. I understand it can be seen as trite - but if this call to action can advertise, we can reply/mock.
Don't quote the rules/guidelines to me, curious conversation doesn't happen all at once - or look like you think. This is used against dissenting opinion far too much.
I know folks here are partial to the scrappy upstart, but at least confront your bias. I'll share mine, comment sections - am I right? We can talk about them, hopefully amicably.
Criticism is fair, they're attempting PR. The smarter play, IMO, is with the distributions. They're doing this some already with Fedora.
Those people are at the conferences already. Make them your fans. They would love to help and are in the absolute best position to do so.
Framework wants free work from those who believe in the mission, ignoring the larger community - almost cannibalizing their own. They're willing to send stuff sitting on shelves, but not bring on Actual Staff.
The developers and integrators don't need a middleman. The users don't need more evangelism. They found Linux.
Framework wants influencers, advertising, and parasocial relationships. Work paid through exposure and trinkets.
They want people to believe Framework is grassroots/good for Linux. I want them to succeed but don't believe this is the way
As a fan of framework and a customer. It really seems a bit pathetic for them to be trying to get free labor from people. Framework is a standard for-profit company and as such nobody should be doing anything for them for free.