As long as you are obsessed with this - you'll perpetuate the problem. The more needy you are and craving for attention the more unattractive and uninteresting you look as a person.
The only solution for these types of problems (aside of usual phychotherapy/physiology that you need to rule out first with help of professionals!) - is to genuinely stop giving a single damn whether you're alone or not.
Right after that moment you will become much much more attractive as a person. And you will release a ton of energy to focus on things that are more important (like your life goals etc).
But you can't fool yourself and pretend that you don't care while still being worried about the outcomes inside. It's not "fake it till you make it" type of inner game.
That is a key to your problem (after you solved main mommy/daddy issues if any with a decent therapist).
No amount of shallow "be yourself, be interested in others" advice will help until you have a foundation to be congruent in these tactical actions. But if you have that foundation that type of advice is mostly redundant.
After reading your comment, I'm left wondering. What exactly is actionable in it? How exactly does it help a person in OPs position? Apart from the part deferring to a therapist, which is more or less common knowledge in this day and age, there's nothing there thats ... helpful. Actionable.
A lot of advice of what you should do, putting the burden on action which is likely to worsen your depression and self-worth image.
So let me offer an alternative, healthier way of dealing with discomfort, especially of the soul: the first step is accepting the situation and making the best of it. Issues of loneliness aren't easily solved by joining the church or the cricket club, despite many comments along those lines; it's good to realise that loneliness sticks with us and gets more painful when around people. You won't ever feel so lonely as in a crowd.
There is a difference between loneliness and solitude. Learn solitude. Learn to be comfortable with yourself. Know yourself, and chances are, you don't have a clue about yourself at 19, and you probably won't be for a few more decades of self-reflection, so get started. Then, when you'll find comfort in yourself, comfort in being by yourself, joy even, you'll be ready to face that door that is the cause of your great sadness today. And you'll come from a place where companionship is no more a matter of life-and-death, but from a more mature position that understand that people come and go, might love you and might hurt you, but the only constant source of joy, respite and calm lies within you, and it's been there all along.
I'm not sure any of this would've made any sense to my 19 years old self, but no one sat down to explain this to me either, so I hope it strikes a chord. Just don't blame yourself for an ill society where connection is ever harder.
-- a fellow lonely person that found joy in solitude, appreciating those heartfelt, fleeting moments with worthy humans.
My main advice would be to make NONE of this about you. Be genuinely curious about others. Really listen to them. Look in their eyes when they are talking to you and when you are talking to them. Completely put the notion of you needing or lacking friends in the backseat and put an interest and genuine caring about the lives of random people you meet in the front.
You can't go into this with the goal of gaining something. Go in with the goal of giving of yourself -- your time, attention and interest.
Do the reps on this and you will become a person people want to be around.
Find whatever works for you to be genuinely interested.
People know if you're faking attention, or if you're unnaturally giving.
It's a tricky balance.
We slowly learn by practicing...
I've learnt over time to be more generous (tried to stop keeping a mental record of debts, and try to avoid giving obligations to anyone), and to be less judgemental (acceptance is mostly good).
Hobbies. Social hobbies. It kind of doesn't matter which, just pick one. Show up religiously. Try your best to talk to people. Having a shared hobby/interest makes for easy conversation and ice breakers. Don't expect to make friends immediately but if you stick with it, show some vulnerability, avoid ego, etc it will happen. Good people are attracted to good people.
I'm personally into rock climbing and the social scene at a good climbing gym is really fantastic. Climbers need climber friends (if only for the selfish need of a belayer). Its great to share notes on a climb, or chat about gear, or dream/plan good outdoors trips.
Not suggesting you take up climbing. I'm using it as an example. But you want some hobby you're gonna take seriously that has a social component.
And, stop being so hard on yourself. Making friends is hard actually (especially making really good ones). Give yourself some grace.
> Try your best to talk to people. Having a shared hobby/interest makes for easy conversation and ice breakers.
Unfortunately for OP, they have a distaste for small talk, and yet small talk is the launchpad for any potential conversation partner.
Small talk is the lubricant for all social interactions and provides a safe, shallow harbor where people can get to know each other before heading out to deeper waters that require more earned trust. People actively reject small talk come across as socially awkward, uninterested, or both.
There was a period when I put space between myself and my main friends which resulted in loneliness, but I found this created a new space to connect with my siblings who were really interesting and had grown in ways I hadn't noticed.
Also, as Charlie Munger always said: "Invert! Invert! Invert!". Try doing the opposite of what you normally do. This requires of course paying attention to what you normally do (or don't do). Instead of waiting for others to reach out to you, for example, you might instead approach them.
Be okay with the fear of rejection. When we are kids we make friends so easily because we haven’t yet learned to protect ourselves from rejection.
An interesting exercise I had to do recently as part of a teambuilding exercise: offer a hug to 5 random strangers. I promise this will teach you something about yourself, and about others.
Not always a good recommendation. A huge reason I was isolated before university was because of excessive control from my family. I'd personally say sports or other common outdoor activities like hiking are a great way to meet people. No strings attached and much more natural than randomly hugging strangers.
Im interested to learn more about this team building exercise. What do you mean by hug random strangers? Like on the street? I've never heard of such an exercise before.
This exercise was part of a 3-day weekend team-building workshop which was part of a voluntary work thing.
This particular exercise was assigned as "homework" by the coaching staff: "You will give a hug to a minimum of 5 people who you don't know before returning to tomorrow's session (no children)".
I think the goal was to 1) Step outside your comfort zone 2) Learn to take rejection less personally 3) Learn something about trust
I did my "homework" by going to Chipotle (some people put up a sign at the hotel lobby with the text "free hugs") and asking the cash register attendant and people inside. I remember going to this older lady who seemed like she had just gotten off a looong shift. She looked up and gave me the warmest smile and said "oh this is excellent! Is this part of church or something?" I got the biggest hug ever and it felt amazing. I had a similar experience with the other four hugs.
Dale Carnegies book 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' could actually help a bit. It's a self-help book, 100 years old, but still very relevant. Nothing magical in it, but quite useful, and for somebody as young as you are it could have a big impact over the lifetime.
In any case, just know that a lot of people struggle with it - much much more than you could imagine. It's worth trying to fix it though.
Regardless of who you are, the world is a big place and there are millions of people who are very similar to you, who you would get along great with and could form meaningful relationships with. I think it's very important that you fight the urge to attribute your loneliness to anything intrinsic to who you are as a person. You don't need to be pretty, funny, or smart to make friends and have meaningful, deep relationships. Like seriously, it's extremely important to understand that it really doesn't have anything to do with you.
One mistake I made when I was in university was have a baseline assumption that I was unlikable or similarly flawed, hence I would always find reasons why someone disliked me and pushed them away as a defence mechanism. Regardless of if it's true it's a horribly unproductive mindset to have and I encourage you to fight it.
Also you won't make friends by reading books. It's tempting to overanalyse but human connection isn't something you learn by reading, you learn it by doing it. A bunch. Go travel and see the world.
After a life with no friends, I found meaning and purpose in my faith, which helped me grow out of my antisocial behaviors. Joining a faith community at the start of my college years gave me a safe space to interact as I matured, and that changed my life.
My childhood was a life of constant transition. Despite my outgoing personality, we moved often, so I had few acquaintances and no lasting friends. Critically, I rarely saw my father, a socially, athletically, intellectually, financially successful man whose affirmation and guidance I would have benefitted from. With no friends and no dad I was adrift.
In my teens I began to idealize romantic companionship, but my emotional neediness drove away anyone I was interested in. This feedback loop (loneliness causing antisocial behavior, reinforcing loneliness) needed to be broken.
The turn around in my life was coming to faith in Jesus in college. I started consistently attending a campus Bible study, and made several lifelong friends, and many more positive relationships. With an active, relationship oriented community, I no longer craved romantic validation, so my disposition to women gradually shifted from neediness to cordially but confidently focusing on other things. It took a few years for this dynamic to mature in me, but by the time I was a college senior, several women around me started expressing interest in me — something I’d never experienced before. A couple of them were not my type, but one in particular turned out to be a generous, agreeable woman with a kind family, who was also quite gorgeous, someone my younger self never could have attracted. I married her, and now I get to be the father that I never had to our children.
Reading your post reminds me of the ache I felt as a young man. But I think that if you find your purpose, you can find your people. And while you never fully “arrive” there is a peace you get just from journeying in the right direction.
You need to learn to enjoy small talk, it's the bridge to "large" talk, which is how you connect with people. Meeting people you can connect with is a numbers game! So if you can learn to enjoy small talk (and get better at it), this would probably help a lot.
If I may be so bold, the fallacy here is of time. Dare I say, you are already surrounded by friends, and not noticing it.
It seems like you measure "friendship" not by the time spent with them when you go to events or in school, but what happens afterwards. In other words, you are discounting to zero the moments that are actually happening in your life, for an imagined future of what a friendship might turn out to be. But life only ever happens moment to moment. That time that you spend with people at an event, that IS the thing.
There is no "friendship certificate": some people, you'll only spend ten minutes with; some, you might spend an afternoon with; others you might end up seeing once a week for a term. You might date a girl for a fortnight, or a couple of months, and then break up and never see each other again. It's ALL GOOD.
If I understand correctly, none of the above would qualify in your eyes as "real friendship", only the deep, deep kind. You might find it helpful to learn about Dunbar's number, and the size of the model's concentric social circles. Most people end up with 1-2 very close friends (possibly including their spouse). That is the outcome over a lifetime of making connections. Popular culture markets this idea that we should all be carousing with a tightly knit group of friends - no statistical social evidence bears this out.
When sinking into deep analysis about all your self-perceived inadequacies, your attention beam is directed inwards. That's unhealthy. When it's directed OUT, into the world, it takes you out of your head, and lets you see that everyone, every single one (person or otherwise), is struggling in their own way. Everyone's got a thing. Looking out builds empathy and kindness and affection towards things that make you happy, and gazing inwards makes you miserable.
You are surrounded by people in school, and are at a stage in life where you get to be interested in whatever. Any experience you have, even if it doesn't lead to lifelong friendships, is worthy in the space of time it occupies.
Throughout my undergrad I had friends come and go. I'm not in touch with anyone I met at Uni during those years. It doesn't make the actual time spent with these people any less special.
+1e9, should be the top answer IMO. Activities create a group of people with a common interest, meeting regularly. You have a ready supply of people with something in common, you meet them regularly enough to create a bond, and easy ways to engage with them outside of class ("hey people who attend activity X, shall we do some activity X outside of classes?").
If you're not very sporty, less sporty things include:
- photography
- dancing classes (esp if you're a man, IME they are usually in short supply for classes)
- hiking / walking groups
- book clubs / chess / bridge
- quirky sports like roller skating
Otherwise, what other say. Other people like being listened to (and their interlocutor remembering what you said to them), that's an accessible trick to bond with people. And finally, it sounds like you don't struggle to build acquaintances - so maybe the tricky bit is "converting" them into friendships.
I'd say, in case it makes you feel better, that this is very much the common experience, to varying degrees, and the cult of people having lots and lots of friends is, for most, commercial propaganda.
First off, definitely go to a therapist. Talking 1on 1 with someone about deep personal topics might be a lot, but it does help. Group therapy can also help, and it can improve your listening and empathy.
Aside from that, I’d evaluate your behavior, personally I’ve always struggled with food addiction and often used that as a crutch to deal with loneliness. Be honest with yourself and check your coping mechanisms- playing video games, doomscrolling, alcohol, etc.. It’s easy to think of these things as relatively harmless ways to blow off steam, but over relying on them can change how you interact with the world, and thus how you’re perceived by others.
As for more practical suggestions, if you’re into listening to music, see if any of the local venues have shows you’d be interested in. Finding people who are passionate about the same music you are is a great shortcut to finding potential friends.
You focus on others talking to you, why don't you talk to them? I don't mean just one conversation but making plans for hanging out next time too, or joining hobbies you'd like to do.
One thing I've learned is that you yourself must make an effort first, even if you think it's unfair or if it's a lot of work, otherwise you'll be lonely forever.
Do you know if you have any sort of neurodivergence? That may be a part of it too. You say small talk tends to bore you yet that is how people start mingling at first. Maybe people are put off by you being put off on small talk.
Thank you for responding! I do talk to people, in fact Im always the first to bring up events that are happening at school, around town or just in general asking to hang out and chill. It works for a bit, but then I either stop getting responses, or getting told they are free at X time but when X arrives they don’t show up or couldn’t show up, and then at the same time it’s depressing to always know you aren’t ever important enough to someone else for them to just reach out ONE time and ask you if you’d like to hang out, and yes I have ADHD.
Most people are not the ones initiating a hangout with others who they aren't yet friends with, they usually join in when invited if it fits their schedule/they are bored, etc. I'd recommend trying to brush off a bit the feeling of rejection since you don't have these connections yet. It sucks a bit but knowing it's completely normal might help you not feel it's something personal against you.
My recommendation is to keep trying with the ones you felt you could potentially click, I also have ADHD but never had much of an issue to make friends, and never made it a "goal", I just kept getting interested in people and would try to meet them again, most times it fizzles out even though you can have a nice time together but eventually some people stick around and become friends over time :)
Also try to have a well defined event, and be genuine, do things you like and try to invite people you met with these shared interests, in a casual and friendly way, people are more prone to join in when they don't feel there's pressure to do it.
I think the 3 first points of this comment [0] touch very much on the core of it, if you can strengthen against the feeling of rejection, and learn to be open and vulnerable (while balancing it to not become oversharing) it can go a long way to make people see and connect with you. Almost everyone is "in the closet" somehow, putting up a mask, when people meet someone that shows less of a mask and more themselves they usually will find those interesting.
Your comments are showing up dead by the way, probably because yours is a new account.
How are you asking, do you have a specific time or event? If you're just saying it generally, that "we should hang out sometime", it's just them being nice rather than having concrete plans.
People will only ask you if you're actually good friends with them, until then you must keep asking if you want to keep the friendship alive.
There is also a possibility that you might be coming off weird but I doubt it as many have ADHD and have friends fine.
> To make friends, be one -- figure out what this means
> Be vulnerable -- the quickest way to connection I have found is to be ok with sharing your vulnerability first
> Be ok with rejection -- the danger of being vulnerable is getting rejected, be ok with that. Plenty of fish in the sea
> Love yourself -- learn to give yourself grace
> Practice gratitude
> Serve/Volunteer/Teach -- you have unique valuable skills, figure out what they are and help others
> Join clubs that excite you -- if none exist create one. (derek sivers: how to start a movement, consider being the second person)
> Find your tribe online -- if none exist create one (see above)
Focus on physical and mental well being, life is long and one never knows the turns, the ups and downs that will come about -- learn to be resilient and don't lose your sense of humor
Hi yresting, I hear you, but I don't think this is the best place to be looking for wisdom in this area - this community is somewhat well known for being head down in work.
I see some straight up bad advice being given in here (being obsessed with finding relationships, which is human need does not perpetuate the problem, it is a biological drive to solve it)
And some good advice: Be genuinely curious about others. Really listen to them. Look in their eyes when they are talking to you and when you are talking to them. (This has done wonders for me in trying to build community!)
For me personally, being christian has helped a little (church ends up being a source of community). Is there any spiritual or religious practice you could find a place of worship to be around others who share your belief with? I'm not trying to impose my faith, but rather my practice of being around those who share my core beliefs.
Another thing that really really helped me was getting over my preoccupation with older friends. My closest friend is 30 years older than me. Literally my dad's age. He is a consistent and reliable guy, and despite having somewhat different backgrounds, he's given mid-30s me a LOT of wisdom and encouragement.
Could be a lot of things and probably a bit of everything. You might have social anxiety, even if you don't feel particularly shy. If you're too clammed up, people recognize that and keep a certain distance. It could also be that you have a very rigid personality. It might simply be a matter of lack of socialization. I don't think there is any way to diagnose this and pinpoint the problem. Learning how to be social is very much a lot like learning how to program: try lots of things, spend a lot of time doing it, and don't be afraid of breaking things. Eventually you'll develop your own methods to keep people entertained and then people will take more interest in you.
Been there, done that.
BTW, you're 19 and actually at 19 this is not all that abnormal. Lots of kids in college find themselves in your situation.
Look, I’m 23 and had the same problem when I was 19 and entered college.
I have really good friends now.
The actionable advice I would give is:
1. Be genuine and don’t fake yourself. Don’t try to behave in a way you think might impress someone, and don’t force yourself in trying to become someone else to become friends with someone.
(Take this as a fundamental advice and I will reference it)
2. Put yourself out there. Try to be more of an extrovert. Approach people for help, If you wanna talk to someone, just talk. (And take advice 1 here, don’t fake yourself).
3. Look, there are definitely people out there who are your type and you’d be great friends. It’s just you have to keep putting yourself out there until you ‘find’ or ‘attract’ the right kind of people.
Participate in events, be a part of communities.
It won’t happen if you consciously try. Don’t be on a lookout, just try to express yourself and take all opportunities to socialise.
Some of these ideas are possibly terrible, but just a brain dump:
I'd pop your head into random events in college, even if it's groups you don't feel align with you.
Try some courses that tend to require higher levels of interaction (like theatre)
I wouldn't join a fraternity, but that's a way some connect with others.
Turn yourself into a billboard, wearing T-shirts for things you like (bands, geeky things, etc). A "cool shirt" comment can start a conversation.
Start smoking. Ok, don't do that. But when I was in school it gave me a reason to congregate in the smoking section of campus. Terrible idea, but it did help me meet some people that almost 30 years later I still consider friends.
> What am I supposed to do? Be lonely and without any kind of company and human connection my entire life?
You won't be. I'm 48 now, and while I'm somewhat well adjusted, when I was your age, and even a bit older, I was such an introverted outcast. Still am, I just learned how to communicate better over time and more or less relate to people where they are, even if we are different. We all grow at different rates. That doesn't help your sense of loneliness today, but as you discover yourself and who your "tribe" is, those connections will form and grow, even if it seems impossible today.
No sh*t about smoking. You have whole social circles that you can easily join just for afternoon or morning smoke breaks. My head misses it but also remembers the nicotine headaches I used to get as well so I guess I’ve somehow overcome that after more than a decade after quitting. The social aspect is undeniable though, and I’m glad there is social pressure against it now, as well as limiting places where people can smoke to far off isolating places.
I am going to disagree with almost all of the advice about studying abroad or joining a club. Those are well-intended, but they are addressing the symptoms, not the cause. Judging from these descriptions:
> I’m socially anxious and keep to myself
> small talk tends to bore me
> it’s exhausting always having to text them to hang out, if I don’t then we never talk again
It's highly possible that you have undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder. I say this because I am reading a book right now about ASD[0] and a lot of this is ringing true, especially the part about being confused why friends are dropping you. Speak to a psychologist and see what they think (or read the book first, and then speak to them). I am 30 now and am just cluing in that I might be on the spectrum, and oh boy do I wish I had caught it when I was younger. (It's also possible that you don't have ASD but some other condition like avoidant personality disorder, but whatever it is, it is so much easier to solve it once you've figured it out.)
What do you like to do? Do it with full intensity and seek IRL clubs/communities built around that activity.
What I love about the modern world is how for any niche activity there seems to be a community. You'll find that those that partake in the activity will have conversations beyond small talk. And when not talking you're doing this thing you like to do!
Its important to do it intensely and in a place with people IRL.
Focus on that for a while and you'll feel better and start hanging out with people.
I recently read that on average, people are happy about 42% of the time, maybe up to 50%. And this applies whether you are single, married, with kids, no kids, etc. So the first thing I'd do is realize that half of the time, you're not going to be "happy"; but what you can worked toward is being content, realizing that the times you aren't particularly happy are normal, and everyone has them.
If you feel very unhappy or unhappy, ie, not content, more than 30-60% of the time, you'd probably benefit from talking to a therapist and learning about how you can like yourself more. You will always have yourself throughout your life, whereas people will come and go. Learn to be your own best friend first.
No one from the comments offer a real solution. They gave advice on how to cope with it not solving the problem. Here is my two cents on a real solution, do a study abroad for a year and choose asian countries (especially china), you will find yourself very popular and will have 10x easier to make friends and girlfriend as long as you are not too weird. (note: i am asian and live in asia, foreigners (assuming from the west) have it much easier here).
I am quite a bit older than you, so my perspective is probably a bit different, but I have learned that friendships come from shared situations and experiences. You're not going to get it from books unfortunately, and the "methods" described in some books might come across as less genuine.
First of all, have realistic expectations. You might not find that _one_ friend easily that can fulfill all your needs in one package, but you can become part of friend groups. Individual connections might grow from that.
To get there:
1. Ensure you are in a place where things are happening, e.g. a larger town or city. This just gives you more options, but even small towns have things happening.
2. Become part of social hobbies, where people frequently meet at an organized time and place. e.g. team sports, local theater groups, book club, makerspace, cooking courses, etc...., whatever you have an interest in. Pick more than one if you can. Live firmly in the real world and not online.
3. Show up and keep showing up, you need to become a familiar face to people. One-off gatherings aren't great for this, but work with what you've got.
4. Participate. Are they looking for volunteers for event X, participate. Do they need someone to help do Y, participate. People are getting together to do race Z, participate. Someone needs an hour help moving some stuff, show up. No need to overdo it, just be there and be seen as a reliable part of the group.
5. Be patient.
Especially participate in new things or initiatives, the groups are less firmly set in stone and it's easier to become part of something. Plus by participating you'll learn of other things happening in the community.
If you "don't like anything", work with what's available and pick the things that are most OK. Part of liking things is doing them. If you're in a tiny village where they only play soccer once a week, well guess what, you're going to learn to play soccer now. The activity is the excuse to be around people.
If small talk bores you but small talk is what's on offer, have small talk. Life is not a stream of "big moments", the mundane is the glue.
Do not expect anything. Keep any ego firmly in check. Go with the flow and be relaxed, whatever happens happens. People can smell neediness.
I'm not sure what help my "advice" is going to be so I'll start with a little context.
I'm near 50 and have basically zero friends. I have colleagues and acquaintances who I get along with. I'm also married with children. I always found it hard to make and keep friends.
I was badly bullied at school and felt worthless and didn't have the confidence at that time to make friends, though I couldn't see it, but I really wanted to, I just didn't know how. At the time I was lonely and depressed. I joined the military just before I was your age and had buddies until I left and it was the military that sorted me out.
With the benefit of age and lack of hormones I've come to accept that I have no friends for reasons. It doesn't bother me anymore. I've also realised I'm not a good friend, I make no effort, I'm not really interested in other people and find their problems annoying. I'm difficult and I don't really like people. And I like my own company.
Do I worry about loneliness? No, but I often wonder if I didn't have my family would I get lonely... I don't know. All I know is that at the moment I'm not and I don't think I will be. But change is constant.
All this is to say that you're young, it's likely not as bad as you think it is right now (I don't say this to lessen what you feel), and you will get passed this. Just be yourself, do what interests you and make the effort, even if it's not reciprocated. There's no shame in making unappreciated effort. Move on and don't over-think shit. Eventually it'll come.
I'm in a similar situation. Was bullied/abused as a youth, made to feel worthless, had trouble socializing, now older, fairly alone, and don't care as much. Lack of social skills become less of a trouble as one ages, I've found, depending on the circumstances, which is quite comforting.
I like to think of the set of all people you'll ever meet as a cloud of points, where the centre of the cloud is the most average person who'll ever cross your path, and the more exotic and interesting you get, the further away from the centre you sit. A really unusual person is going to be way out on the fringes, without many nearby points, and finding those points - the people who get them - is going to take time. If you're one of those people then it's going to suck, especially in the beginning. But as time passes and you start to accumulate those rare relationships where things feel like they click, you'll probably be glad of it. The people you find will almost invariably be interesting weirdos, and enriching to be around in a way that people from the centre tend not to be. And on top of that, my experience has been that they appreciate the value of a good friend.
Follow your interests and your values, be patient, and eventually you'll find into your people.
I know I'm too being vague, like all other comments in this thread. But my suggestion would be to work on feeling well/good. The energy one emanates is what attracts or pushes other people away. It is of course a very complex topic, how to reach a state of emotional well-being, but you can start by taking better care of yourself, your health and your mood will also improve.
Once your general state of health/emotional well-being improves, you'll see that this state of craving others also fades.
So how do you improve your well-being/health? The cornerstone should be paying attention to your body, your sensations, feelings and listening. Resting well when tired. Eating well. Noticing your thoughts, especially negative thoughts about yourself. Learn to be kinder to yourself. If you do these things, you'll feel better and you'll become a bit more attractive to others.
This might help https://youtu.be/6KGYCU_INVI?si=1Ds8Rez8vNbZAyV5, it has more to do with your perception, expectations, and the story you tell yourself rather than an actual state of “loneliness”.
You are going through a normal phase of growth, and need to be able to sit with discomfort and question it. You will likely find yourself cherishing these moments when you are older.
I'm curious, can you say more about what happens when you go through a conflict with someone who might be a friend? For example, when someone blames you or ignores your text or rejects you? How do you tend to feel? What do you tend to do in response?
This 1000%! Two of the most important relationships I've made (my wife, and a boss who hired me, and later became one of my dearest friends) arose when I decided to act completely differently in the moment than I habitually would. In my wife's case, this meant immediately introducing myself to a woman I found attractive, in the other when I faced a financial crunch and resolved to apply for better-paying work even if I wasn't totally qualified instead of losing hope and going on a bender.
I’d like to think I do make an effort in a way, I try to go to the events that are being held at school, I’ve joined a few clubs and I talk to some of the people there. But it doesn’t go anywhere from there. But I will admit I’m socially anxious and keep to myself, but when I see an opportunity to crack a joke I do. But still it leads no where, I’m just that funny quirky kid who made a joke at the holiday festival. I’m still an irrelevant person nobody cares about, and even if I get a few numbers, I end up having ti hold the entire “friendship” on my back until I’m tired and then it ends.
You need to push it, you can not stop, you need to make it a simple repeat loop otherwise there is no escape. Once you establish friends, act out of your comfort zone, it can become stable and your new daily routine. It's literally exposure therapy, the exposure here is to be secure in yourself and go out.
Everyone has this issue, some people have it worse. I would give anything to be normal in this regard, I've succeeded but I have a stutter which is horrible-- so imagine being able to just talk normally and go out in the world!
That last line, thats just negtative self talk. Stop that.
> People find me funny and when I do talk to people we have decent conversations (though small talk tends to bore me).
> However that doesn’t lead anywhere and doesn’t bring me any kind of comfort or fulfillment
You have two good things going for you here:
- you're able to hold a conversation with people, even if it might not be as deep a conversation as you'd like it to be.
- you're funny and can joke around with people.
It sounds like you might have some surface level relationships and want deeper connections with people, which is totally understandable. Small talk can be boring at first, but it often opens the possibility of deeper relationships. I'd recommend low-stakes/activity based social interactions and seeing where they take you.
Some ideas:
- If you're on your way to the dining hall to get a meal, ask your dorm mates if they wanna join
- Colleges have a movie night on weekends to see a movie for free, ask class mates, dorm mates to go.
- Does your campus have like a rec/game center (think pool, air hockey, games etc). Another thing to ask people to.
You might have to suffer through a lot of rejection before you get takers. After that you might have to suffer through small talk about the weather, where someone is from, what their major is, etc before you get to the deeper connections.
You’re in a tough spot. Loneliness can make people act in ways that others are put off by. You can end up trying to pull people in to help salve the pain you feel. It can perpetuate itself despite your effort.
I heard a saying once that is a hard truth that stuck with me. “If you want to be loved, be loveable.” Take stock of yourself and your confidence. Choose some areas for growth and accomplishment that you can get after independently. You’re in college so it’s a great time to build yourself with intention.
For example, learn to play music. Get into a sport. Find your interests and get after them with gusto.
Skills and interests will give opportunity for connection not just with people but with yourself. You can be so much more than you are today.
> Be lonely and without any kind of company and human connection my entire life
You may be lonely now, but you will have some different stages in life where friendship and companionship may appear.
First - when you start working you will join a team of some sorts. Just be yourself and and make sure you attend all the team nights out.
Second - traveling. You can join tour groups and visit some cool places. Don't do this to specifically find friends but you will be part of a group and have companionship for a brief period.
Thirdly - dating. You will be able to find a partner. This is most peoples main companion in life.
Fourthly - you could join a non-work team where you can have social interactions. I can't give too much advice on this one because I am not on a team like this.
I was very lonely my first two years of college. I moved across the country to California for school and I don’t think 10 people knew my name by the end of my 2nd year. It was borderline debilitating and honestly reading your comment brings back a lot of those memories. The two things that helped me were getting off my phone/internet and going to therapy. Your things will most likely be different. A lot of people will tell you to join clubs etc. This is more or less the right answer with the caveat being that you most likely will not make “real” friends from these if you’re not open to connection. I was in jazz ensemble my first two years of college and made 0 friends. It wasn’t until after therapy/getting into a relationship with someone from a dating app that I started making friends. Probably from the increased confidence? Not sure. I’m now a senior and I’m just starting to actually develop “real” friendships.
Feel free to reach me at alexbwell12 at gmail dot com. Don’t have any crazy wisdom to pass down — just know how much it sucked for me.
Join a club or professional fraternity (highly recommend). You'll make lifelong friends. You have to get out there and make it happen and don't bail if it seems daunting or makes you nervous.
If you live on campus (you definitely should if possible), make friends with the people who live in your dorm. Keep your door open at all times and be friendly to everyone around. People will just drop in. If your uni has college basketball or football, become a fan of the team and go to the games or watch em in the dorm.
In college you have tons of people around you with all sorts of different backgrounds. Rest assured, someone will have common interests with you and will find you fascinating. You don't need a lot of friends in this life, just a few good ones. Not everyone will like you, that's okay.
I'd also recommend talking to a professional, you might need to practice your social interactions. They have groups for this sorta thing if they deem you ready, but there's something more going on that has put you in this situation I'd wager.
If you take nothing else away from my comment, I would suggest finding out why you do that, and try to change that mental behavior. It might not directly help with loneliness, but it might make your life more satisfactory.
That said, while other folks on HN will have some advice you'll find useful, I'm not sure how applicable my experiences are to anyone else. My advice would be to examine the things you're interested in, especially if they're weird or "cringe", and find people who share those interests. Be shamelessly authentic.
I have a ridiculous amount of interest I could share. I will take your advice and see if I can find people who share those interest! I will also try and change my thoughts. It’s just hard to not feel like the world is closing in when it feels like nobody acknowledges your existence.
Why do you care if people acknowledge your existence?
Some people would love that and see it as a super power. Lots of interesting things going on in the world to explore, you should consider that what you think is the issue is not the answer, it has enough of it's own problems. People are annoying and get in the way of enjoying many things. Go enjoy life and stuff first, your 19, plenty of time to find friends along the way.
I think there's some good advice on this thread. Your issue definitely resonates with me, college was very lonely for me as well. HN itself doesn't lend itself to continued conversation (long threads lose their [reply] button and repeated postings from new accounts can turn automatically comments [dead], as in your case). You don't have an email posted, but you can –if you want– message mine. Just say "From HN", or whatever! I (internet rando) would like to talk to you.
I’m sorry you’re feeling so isolated. It’s really hard to be in a situation where you feel like your attempts don’t go anywhere. But the good news is things can get better really fast. Finding your people in college is one of the best things. I’m not really good at faking a lot of social stuff so I relate a to your frustration. The good news is people respond really well to people who have a genuine interest in them. So it sounds like you need to go find some people you find interesting and interact with them. I was trying to make friends in Seattle recently and I thought that one of the most experienced scuba divers in Seattle wouldn’t want to be my dive partner because they had so much more experience, but my interest in what they were doing closed the gap and now they’re a close friend of mine and I’ve learned so much about scuba diving.
This isn’t what you asked but I would remove all social media from your phone. Nothing makes you lonelier than social media. Facebook and instagram should be the first to go. TikTok as well. Delete them and watch if you start to feel better.
As for the other. Most friends I’ve ever met went like this: meet at an event relating to a shared interest (first you have to go to things, next you have to talk to people): find a person I genuinely like and respect, talk to them, do something together (study, eat, coffee), listen more than you talk, try to be as good a friend to them as possible.
And I’m easy. Anyone wants to be my friend and I’ll be theirs. (So long as they treat me as a friend —don’t get me started about people who claim to be friends but who don’t treat me like a friend). This leads me to having some really weird friends. This also leads me to having friends who always treat me right.
I’m an introvert so I tend to prioritize small numbers of deep connections over many shallow friendships. Everyplace I go I find the person I like best and I try to get to know them. I talk to them, listen, hear what they’re about, engage with things they find interesting.
At 19 you’ve never had a friend? I honestly don’t believe it. I suspect you’re experiencing a depressive episode that is clouding your memory. Every child has had a friend. In grade school or middle school. Call your mother and ask her (I’m serious). I honestly think you’re not remembering clearly. It happens, I don’t know how to fix it, but looking for it might’ve a start. (If you haven’t I’d start looking for something you’re doing that drives people away. But I honestly don’t think you could be doing something without knowing it)
Join clubs for things you find interesting. Get a job doing things you find interesting. Do favors for people, ask favors of people. Look for friendships in unlikely places. I once became friends with a professor who I did computer work for. We just got along. He invited me over for dinner with him and his wife. I was on his Christmas list (he made mix cds for people, I still have two he made me)
I do not know your interests, but if you like bicycling, I would look into a joining a recreational cycling club and ride with them. These tend to be low key events and you can make friends there.
People will suggest what works for them, sometimes it will apply, often it will not. You have to find what works for you, and maybe multiple times because once you graduate, you will find yourself back in the same situation.
The best suggestion I received was to imagine where I wanted to be long term, and to go on working on that. Somehow it took me out of the loop of trying to find an answer outside of my own self.
The other thing that helped was to stop trying to do the same as what others around are (saying they are) doing and be honest with myself and others about what I wanted.
Do you have any hobbies or interests outside of school? If you're passionate about something, you'll be more interesting to people. It'll give you personality. Even if they don't have the same interest, they will ask you about it. And obviously, you'll also meet people who have the same interests.
I'll give you an extreme example: there was a Claude AI chatbot that was obsessed with the Golden Gate Bridge. This bot (a computer... a machine) had personality and was considered quirky, funny, endearing, and people loved it.
I like programming, electronics, reading, maths and am getting a bike this week so I can spend more time outside! I love talking about these things with other people, and from what I can gather from their body language and facial expressions they also enjoy hearing what I have to say about my interest. But I also enjoy letting them talk about what they like to do so I can get to know them!
Maybe also try hiking as more people are into it, plus more opportunity to chat compared to biking. Look for hiking groups in your college. There will be bikers in that group too.
Also, any activity where you see the same people on a regular basis so they get to know you is great.
I had the same issue after college. I joined a meetup group and made lots of friends over the course of a few years. It's been over a decade now, and I'm still friends with many of them.
Making friends is a lot of work, can be uncomfortable, and it takes time.
One cool thing about university is that there are lots of clubs you can join. I'd suggest you go find a club you're interested in and participate every week. Talk to people when you get the opportunity. I've read it takes around five times attending a group before people start taking your attendance seriously enough start investing time in getting to know you. Give it a few months and I'll bet you have some acquaintances that could become friends.
You are 19. Why do you care? Who gives a damn? Most people are a waste of time, so why are you wasting so much time thinking about that?
The problem when you are 19 is you don't realise that you are young. You are already using language like 'my entire life', your entire life is nothing right now, most of that time you were way too young to even have much of a life apart from being a child.
So my advice is just relax, it doesn't matter. The issue is you think it does and I get you, because that is what everyone thinks at that age, but trust me when you are older you will understand, the issue is not much is going to help you right now and you prob think I am being a dick. But if you somehow remember this post in ten years time, you will be like 'that guy was right'
Go explore and enjoy life. You can do that on your own and the more you do that and the more you can get from that, the more other people will want to be around you and then it will be up to you if you want to let them in or not.
Get used to it. Culture your independence. Learn how to sit alone in a room by yourself and enjoy your thoughts. Get off the doom scrolling life path and love yourself.
Look at all these comments chiming in with advice or similar stories. No way to tell how useful they are for you in particular but pretty neat how many people responded to your personal question outreach on a tech forum.
I don't have advice for you but I (and apparently lots of other folks here) feel for you and want good things for you just because you're a person and I think that's nice.
The holidays can be pretty depressing but we're almost through and I think you'll be ok.
I don't like to overpromise and I'm busy as hell but if you want another surface level friend (or at least some candid feedback) via email I'm game (hn @ <my username>.com). You mentioned this isn't really missing in your life so no worries but if you're feeling like the world is closing in maybe it can help.
Don't ask Hacker News. One of the biggest challenges in life is building a set of contacts worth listening to about life. HN can only intermittently put proper context and nuance around statements regarding software. Forget about anything else.
You’re definitely not alone in feeling this way, even if it feels isolating.
Small routines and low-pressure social spaces helped me more than forcing myself into big social situations.
You havent mentioned whether you are doing any after school activities?
Join any club where you can interact socially, like martial arts, boxing, any group sports, dancing.. or if not into that try chess/literature/board games/music clubs.
Not 100% guaranteed it will find you good friends, but you will get social interactions and be able to practice social skills.
This is maybe a bit of boomer advice, but if you are a young man you wont have many friends unless you can provide value to others, or unless they think they can get something out you, that something can be as little as social currency or being interesting to hang around with, which comes from skills and life experience.
Talk to a specialist like a therapist. Have them give you an honest assessment of how you present yourself. Maybe there's something you're doing or saying, or even the way you look, that you're not aware of and has caused people to keep their distance from you.
Given how long you've claimed you've been like this, it's very likely behavioral; you're giving off some characteristic that is telling most people you meet that you're not worth spending time with. It might be something as simple as avoiding eye contact, or strange body language, or not knowing how to hold even a rudimentary, surface-level conversation. These are all skills that can be learned, especially when you're still young.
I was in a similar situation when I was younger; grew up relatively isolated, barely had any friends, etc. I was socially deprived and abused as a child, and have a speech impediment that has made socializing difficult at times, but I learned how to listen and ask questions and get to know people, and I actually became quite the social butterfly for a good chunk of my 20s and 30s.
Now that I'm older, I'm back to being more isolated for personal reasons, but my life is different now and I don't care as much about it, nor am I as reliant on social connections as I used to be. Frankly, I never felt I fit in anywhere, nor have I ever truly liked anyone beyond whatever immediate social gratification I needed filling in the moment. Friendships and connections have always been fleeting, overhyped, and overblown to me, especially when I look back at my life so far and struggle to think of anyone I still care about.
Social connections are important when you're younger, but I've found the older you get, the less important they become, especially if you're smart about how you live your life.
This may not make you feel better, but I was lonely until maybe age 25. That was the year I graduated and started my first job and made my first two real friends. Before that I sat alone in the back of the lecture hall in University and hated on all the fun-having classmates.
Age 25 was also when I met my first girlfriend that lasted less than a year. Age 34 was when I met my second girlfriend, who became my wife, and how we are separated. Long story short, I'm pretty content with my life now. You can say I'm a bit of a late bloomer.
I thought I would be alone forever too, so much so that in college I aspired to be a Buddhist monk.
What helped me was learning how to be less socially awkward through work interactions. When I was 32 I solo backpacked Europe which made me seem like a more interesting person. Also I'm a bit of a people pleaser and I was helpful to some key people in my life and they are now my good friends. Also I saved and invested a good chunk of my income which kind of helps overall with confidence.
> People find me funny and when I do talk to people we have decent conversations (though small talk tends to bore me). However that doesn’t lead anywhere and doesn’t bring me any kind of comfort or fulfillment. I’ve attributed my lack of friends to something that places all the blame on me. Maybe I’m ugly, maybe I’m not funny enough, maybe I’m dumb.
I've felt all those things at some point. You don't have to be attractive or funny or a genius. I've always walked around with these recurring fantasies of being some secretly impressive superhero that saved the day publicly or had all these amazing talents and everyone would realize my worth. I realize now that everyone is too into their own lives to care, and even if they seem to admire something about you, they see it from the perspective of how it benefits themselves. This is absolutely fine, and human.
I guess what I'm saying is that you'll grow out of this phase. Right now I have all the friends I could ever want, ironically at a phase I'm my life I want to be more solitary.
I am guessing everyday you are getting a chance to make a friend, but somehow it doesn’t work out.
So let’s invert it: what prevents/kills friendships?
- lying (for whatever reason)
- talking too much about yourself
- not asking people about their lives
- being too private
- being too judgmental
- not empathizing - e.g. someone tells you about something hard they’re experiencing and you change the subject
- not caring to help (also showing you don’t care about others that aren’t in your friend-zone)
- not offering help
- not being kind
- not smiling (more like makes it hard for people to approach you)
Most of us want/need friends. Most of us want/need to talk to others about our lives. Someone just moved to where you live. They need a friend. They will strike a conversation w anyone.
Even people in your past probably wanted to be your friend (either coz they thought you were cool or they just needed a friend) - you can still be friends with them. I’ve become friends w people I met long after meeting them.
Asking someone how they are is not so much about the other person. It’s mostly a social ritual. But if no one is asking you how you are, they might also be intimidated by you.
As Aaron Burr would say: talk less, smile more - jk, do more of both.
1. Learn to love yourself. I know it sound eye rolls but hear me out! You are trying too hard. You don't need to read books to get friends and you're neither ugly nor dumb - the friendships don't care about any of it.
Your genuineness shows in every action, look and gesture so look within. You might need to get therapy and that's okay too. Don't put so much pressure on yourself, you are fine just the way you are.
Once you have learned to love yourself / look within you will be able to be by yourself without feeling lonely and just like that you'll attract the right kind of people towards you.
I hope it helps and I hope you feel better soon!
I do! But it’s exhausting always having to text them to hang out, if I don’t then we never talk again. I had a “friend” I consistently texted for 2 - 3 months and it seemed like everything was alright, I then had some personal things I had to take care of and wasn’t able to talk to them. I never heard from them again. Ouch.
One option is to find a good doctor/psychiatrist/therapist and try to get diagnosed. (You can also try to self-diagnose via the Interne, your favorite LLM, or just skimming the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5, but that's a risker option due to false positives and noise.)
Some of these social problems (e.g, ones caused by missing childhood socialization experiences) are curable through practice, but others will require you to learn enough about human social behavior to mask until someone figures out a cure. It can be exhausting, (just like physical exercise can be exhausting) but it's a useful skill to have in order to do well in life.
take hobbies (possibly that involve multiple persons) and defocus your loneliness. your generation is kinda fucked (covid & social media) and as a group you'll all have to grow up out of it. but it's not something you can fix easily in a short time. so yeah, focus on something else for now.
I've had some success with Meetup (tech meetups specifically). The app/site is terrible though and I think the fees on organizers can be hefty nowadays, so look on the Meetup alternatives, since there might be groups posted to those too.
As long as you are obsessed with this - you'll perpetuate the problem. The more needy you are and craving for attention the more unattractive and uninteresting you look as a person.
The only solution for these types of problems (aside of usual phychotherapy/physiology that you need to rule out first with help of professionals!) - is to genuinely stop giving a single damn whether you're alone or not.
Right after that moment you will become much much more attractive as a person. And you will release a ton of energy to focus on things that are more important (like your life goals etc).
But you can't fool yourself and pretend that you don't care while still being worried about the outcomes inside. It's not "fake it till you make it" type of inner game.
That is a key to your problem (after you solved main mommy/daddy issues if any with a decent therapist).
No amount of shallow "be yourself, be interested in others" advice will help until you have a foundation to be congruent in these tactical actions. But if you have that foundation that type of advice is mostly redundant.
After reading your comment, I'm left wondering. What exactly is actionable in it? How exactly does it help a person in OPs position? Apart from the part deferring to a therapist, which is more or less common knowledge in this day and age, there's nothing there thats ... helpful. Actionable.
Its actionable by doing things for yourself, not for the purpose of meeting people.
When I say doing things, I mean things out in the world.
During those you might chat to people casually.
People like people that do things and turn up, so many people do little and aren't interested in going out and turning up to things.
Do stuff and you become more interesting.
Mostly people talk about themselves so ask them what they do and be interested, when they ask you what you do you will have done a bunch of stuff.
Get out there and enrich yourself with experience, make yourself too busy to be lonely.
> What exactly is actionable in it?
That’s exactly the point!
There is no _action_ towards the claimed goal that wouldn’t make the problem worse!
I know that both from personal experience and from years of observation of other people.
The only _action_ is to switch focus completely away from this problem to something more meaningful.
My read is to relax and accept things as they are. This ironically makes you a lot more attractive.
A lot of advice of what you should do, putting the burden on action which is likely to worsen your depression and self-worth image.
So let me offer an alternative, healthier way of dealing with discomfort, especially of the soul: the first step is accepting the situation and making the best of it. Issues of loneliness aren't easily solved by joining the church or the cricket club, despite many comments along those lines; it's good to realise that loneliness sticks with us and gets more painful when around people. You won't ever feel so lonely as in a crowd.
There is a difference between loneliness and solitude. Learn solitude. Learn to be comfortable with yourself. Know yourself, and chances are, you don't have a clue about yourself at 19, and you probably won't be for a few more decades of self-reflection, so get started. Then, when you'll find comfort in yourself, comfort in being by yourself, joy even, you'll be ready to face that door that is the cause of your great sadness today. And you'll come from a place where companionship is no more a matter of life-and-death, but from a more mature position that understand that people come and go, might love you and might hurt you, but the only constant source of joy, respite and calm lies within you, and it's been there all along.
I'm not sure any of this would've made any sense to my 19 years old self, but no one sat down to explain this to me either, so I hope it strikes a chord. Just don't blame yourself for an ill society where connection is ever harder.
-- a fellow lonely person that found joy in solitude, appreciating those heartfelt, fleeting moments with worthy humans.
My main advice would be to make NONE of this about you. Be genuinely curious about others. Really listen to them. Look in their eyes when they are talking to you and when you are talking to them. Completely put the notion of you needing or lacking friends in the backseat and put an interest and genuine caring about the lives of random people you meet in the front.
You can't go into this with the goal of gaining something. Go in with the goal of giving of yourself -- your time, attention and interest.
Do the reps on this and you will become a person people want to be around.
And you need to be genuine.
Find whatever works for you to be genuinely interested.
People know if you're faking attention, or if you're unnaturally giving.
It's a tricky balance.
We slowly learn by practicing...
I've learnt over time to be more generous (tried to stop keeping a mental record of debts, and try to avoid giving obligations to anyone), and to be less judgemental (acceptance is mostly good).
Hobbies. Social hobbies. It kind of doesn't matter which, just pick one. Show up religiously. Try your best to talk to people. Having a shared hobby/interest makes for easy conversation and ice breakers. Don't expect to make friends immediately but if you stick with it, show some vulnerability, avoid ego, etc it will happen. Good people are attracted to good people.
I'm personally into rock climbing and the social scene at a good climbing gym is really fantastic. Climbers need climber friends (if only for the selfish need of a belayer). Its great to share notes on a climb, or chat about gear, or dream/plan good outdoors trips.
Not suggesting you take up climbing. I'm using it as an example. But you want some hobby you're gonna take seriously that has a social component.
And, stop being so hard on yourself. Making friends is hard actually (especially making really good ones). Give yourself some grace.
> Try your best to talk to people. Having a shared hobby/interest makes for easy conversation and ice breakers.
Unfortunately for OP, they have a distaste for small talk, and yet small talk is the launchpad for any potential conversation partner.
Small talk is the lubricant for all social interactions and provides a safe, shallow harbor where people can get to know each other before heading out to deeper waters that require more earned trust. People actively reject small talk come across as socially awkward, uninterested, or both.
I hate small talk. Never needed it to make friends.
Good for you, but my comment was directed towards OP, who wants friends but hated the process.
My comment is also directed towards OP: you don’t need small talk to make friends.
Start with the low hanging fruit: your family.
There was a period when I put space between myself and my main friends which resulted in loneliness, but I found this created a new space to connect with my siblings who were really interesting and had grown in ways I hadn't noticed.
Also, as Charlie Munger always said: "Invert! Invert! Invert!". Try doing the opposite of what you normally do. This requires of course paying attention to what you normally do (or don't do). Instead of waiting for others to reach out to you, for example, you might instead approach them.
Be okay with the fear of rejection. When we are kids we make friends so easily because we haven’t yet learned to protect ourselves from rejection.
An interesting exercise I had to do recently as part of a teambuilding exercise: offer a hug to 5 random strangers. I promise this will teach you something about yourself, and about others.
> Start with the low hanging fruit: your family.
Not always a good recommendation. A huge reason I was isolated before university was because of excessive control from my family. I'd personally say sports or other common outdoor activities like hiking are a great way to meet people. No strings attached and much more natural than randomly hugging strangers.
Im interested to learn more about this team building exercise. What do you mean by hug random strangers? Like on the street? I've never heard of such an exercise before.
This exercise was part of a 3-day weekend team-building workshop which was part of a voluntary work thing.
This particular exercise was assigned as "homework" by the coaching staff: "You will give a hug to a minimum of 5 people who you don't know before returning to tomorrow's session (no children)".
I think the goal was to 1) Step outside your comfort zone 2) Learn to take rejection less personally 3) Learn something about trust
I did my "homework" by going to Chipotle (some people put up a sign at the hotel lobby with the text "free hugs") and asking the cash register attendant and people inside. I remember going to this older lady who seemed like she had just gotten off a looong shift. She looked up and gave me the warmest smile and said "oh this is excellent! Is this part of church or something?" I got the biggest hug ever and it felt amazing. I had a similar experience with the other four hugs.
Fascinating. I can see the usefulness in that. It seems a little bizarre to me without the context so thank you for clarifying.
Dale Carnegies book 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' could actually help a bit. It's a self-help book, 100 years old, but still very relevant. Nothing magical in it, but quite useful, and for somebody as young as you are it could have a big impact over the lifetime.
In any case, just know that a lot of people struggle with it - much much more than you could imagine. It's worth trying to fix it though.
Good luck !
Regardless of who you are, the world is a big place and there are millions of people who are very similar to you, who you would get along great with and could form meaningful relationships with. I think it's very important that you fight the urge to attribute your loneliness to anything intrinsic to who you are as a person. You don't need to be pretty, funny, or smart to make friends and have meaningful, deep relationships. Like seriously, it's extremely important to understand that it really doesn't have anything to do with you.
One mistake I made when I was in university was have a baseline assumption that I was unlikable or similarly flawed, hence I would always find reasons why someone disliked me and pushed them away as a defence mechanism. Regardless of if it's true it's a horribly unproductive mindset to have and I encourage you to fight it.
Also you won't make friends by reading books. It's tempting to overanalyse but human connection isn't something you learn by reading, you learn it by doing it. A bunch. Go travel and see the world.
After a life with no friends, I found meaning and purpose in my faith, which helped me grow out of my antisocial behaviors. Joining a faith community at the start of my college years gave me a safe space to interact as I matured, and that changed my life.
My childhood was a life of constant transition. Despite my outgoing personality, we moved often, so I had few acquaintances and no lasting friends. Critically, I rarely saw my father, a socially, athletically, intellectually, financially successful man whose affirmation and guidance I would have benefitted from. With no friends and no dad I was adrift.
In my teens I began to idealize romantic companionship, but my emotional neediness drove away anyone I was interested in. This feedback loop (loneliness causing antisocial behavior, reinforcing loneliness) needed to be broken.
The turn around in my life was coming to faith in Jesus in college. I started consistently attending a campus Bible study, and made several lifelong friends, and many more positive relationships. With an active, relationship oriented community, I no longer craved romantic validation, so my disposition to women gradually shifted from neediness to cordially but confidently focusing on other things. It took a few years for this dynamic to mature in me, but by the time I was a college senior, several women around me started expressing interest in me — something I’d never experienced before. A couple of them were not my type, but one in particular turned out to be a generous, agreeable woman with a kind family, who was also quite gorgeous, someone my younger self never could have attracted. I married her, and now I get to be the father that I never had to our children.
Reading your post reminds me of the ache I felt as a young man. But I think that if you find your purpose, you can find your people. And while you never fully “arrive” there is a peace you get just from journeying in the right direction.
You need to learn to enjoy small talk, it's the bridge to "large" talk, which is how you connect with people. Meeting people you can connect with is a numbers game! So if you can learn to enjoy small talk (and get better at it), this would probably help a lot.
If I may be so bold, the fallacy here is of time. Dare I say, you are already surrounded by friends, and not noticing it.
It seems like you measure "friendship" not by the time spent with them when you go to events or in school, but what happens afterwards. In other words, you are discounting to zero the moments that are actually happening in your life, for an imagined future of what a friendship might turn out to be. But life only ever happens moment to moment. That time that you spend with people at an event, that IS the thing.
There is no "friendship certificate": some people, you'll only spend ten minutes with; some, you might spend an afternoon with; others you might end up seeing once a week for a term. You might date a girl for a fortnight, or a couple of months, and then break up and never see each other again. It's ALL GOOD.
If I understand correctly, none of the above would qualify in your eyes as "real friendship", only the deep, deep kind. You might find it helpful to learn about Dunbar's number, and the size of the model's concentric social circles. Most people end up with 1-2 very close friends (possibly including their spouse). That is the outcome over a lifetime of making connections. Popular culture markets this idea that we should all be carousing with a tightly knit group of friends - no statistical social evidence bears this out.
When sinking into deep analysis about all your self-perceived inadequacies, your attention beam is directed inwards. That's unhealthy. When it's directed OUT, into the world, it takes you out of your head, and lets you see that everyone, every single one (person or otherwise), is struggling in their own way. Everyone's got a thing. Looking out builds empathy and kindness and affection towards things that make you happy, and gazing inwards makes you miserable.
You are surrounded by people in school, and are at a stage in life where you get to be interested in whatever. Any experience you have, even if it doesn't lead to lifelong friendships, is worthy in the space of time it occupies.
Throughout my undergrad I had friends come and go. I'm not in touch with anyone I met at Uni during those years. It doesn't make the actual time spent with these people any less special.
The standard way to form a friendship is to be around someone regularly with whom you share a common goal.
This happens in some school environments (eg: long-term group projects), many work environments, team sports, certain vacation environments, etc.
Join a language class, or a sports club, or find employment somewhere, or go on a hostel vacation.
Make sure it's something you want to do for its own sake - enough so that you're not obsessing over befriending people.
+1e9, should be the top answer IMO. Activities create a group of people with a common interest, meeting regularly. You have a ready supply of people with something in common, you meet them regularly enough to create a bond, and easy ways to engage with them outside of class ("hey people who attend activity X, shall we do some activity X outside of classes?").
If you're not very sporty, less sporty things include:
- photography
- dancing classes (esp if you're a man, IME they are usually in short supply for classes)
- hiking / walking groups
- book clubs / chess / bridge
- quirky sports like roller skating
Otherwise, what other say. Other people like being listened to (and their interlocutor remembering what you said to them), that's an accessible trick to bond with people. And finally, it sounds like you don't struggle to build acquaintances - so maybe the tricky bit is "converting" them into friendships.
I'd say, in case it makes you feel better, that this is very much the common experience, to varying degrees, and the cult of people having lots and lots of friends is, for most, commercial propaganda.
First off, definitely go to a therapist. Talking 1on 1 with someone about deep personal topics might be a lot, but it does help. Group therapy can also help, and it can improve your listening and empathy.
Aside from that, I’d evaluate your behavior, personally I’ve always struggled with food addiction and often used that as a crutch to deal with loneliness. Be honest with yourself and check your coping mechanisms- playing video games, doomscrolling, alcohol, etc.. It’s easy to think of these things as relatively harmless ways to blow off steam, but over relying on them can change how you interact with the world, and thus how you’re perceived by others.
As for more practical suggestions, if you’re into listening to music, see if any of the local venues have shows you’d be interested in. Finding people who are passionate about the same music you are is a great shortcut to finding potential friends.
You focus on others talking to you, why don't you talk to them? I don't mean just one conversation but making plans for hanging out next time too, or joining hobbies you'd like to do.
One thing I've learned is that you yourself must make an effort first, even if you think it's unfair or if it's a lot of work, otherwise you'll be lonely forever.
Do you know if you have any sort of neurodivergence? That may be a part of it too. You say small talk tends to bore you yet that is how people start mingling at first. Maybe people are put off by you being put off on small talk.
Thank you for responding! I do talk to people, in fact Im always the first to bring up events that are happening at school, around town or just in general asking to hang out and chill. It works for a bit, but then I either stop getting responses, or getting told they are free at X time but when X arrives they don’t show up or couldn’t show up, and then at the same time it’s depressing to always know you aren’t ever important enough to someone else for them to just reach out ONE time and ask you if you’d like to hang out, and yes I have ADHD.
Most people are not the ones initiating a hangout with others who they aren't yet friends with, they usually join in when invited if it fits their schedule/they are bored, etc. I'd recommend trying to brush off a bit the feeling of rejection since you don't have these connections yet. It sucks a bit but knowing it's completely normal might help you not feel it's something personal against you.
My recommendation is to keep trying with the ones you felt you could potentially click, I also have ADHD but never had much of an issue to make friends, and never made it a "goal", I just kept getting interested in people and would try to meet them again, most times it fizzles out even though you can have a nice time together but eventually some people stick around and become friends over time :)
Also try to have a well defined event, and be genuine, do things you like and try to invite people you met with these shared interests, in a casual and friendly way, people are more prone to join in when they don't feel there's pressure to do it.
I think the 3 first points of this comment [0] touch very much on the core of it, if you can strengthen against the feeling of rejection, and learn to be open and vulnerable (while balancing it to not become oversharing) it can go a long way to make people see and connect with you. Almost everyone is "in the closet" somehow, putting up a mask, when people meet someone that shows less of a mask and more themselves they usually will find those interesting.
What are some social activities you like to do?
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46417195
Your comments are showing up dead by the way, probably because yours is a new account.
How are you asking, do you have a specific time or event? If you're just saying it generally, that "we should hang out sometime", it's just them being nice rather than having concrete plans.
People will only ask you if you're actually good friends with them, until then you must keep asking if you want to keep the friendship alive.
There is also a possibility that you might be coming off weird but I doubt it as many have ADHD and have friends fine.
Not exhaustive by any means but here some ideas:
Focus on physical and mental well being, life is long and one never knows the turns, the ups and downs that will come about -- learn to be resilient and don't lose your sense of humorHi yresting, I hear you, but I don't think this is the best place to be looking for wisdom in this area - this community is somewhat well known for being head down in work.
I see some straight up bad advice being given in here (being obsessed with finding relationships, which is human need does not perpetuate the problem, it is a biological drive to solve it)
And some good advice: Be genuinely curious about others. Really listen to them. Look in their eyes when they are talking to you and when you are talking to them. (This has done wonders for me in trying to build community!)
For me personally, being christian has helped a little (church ends up being a source of community). Is there any spiritual or religious practice you could find a place of worship to be around others who share your belief with? I'm not trying to impose my faith, but rather my practice of being around those who share my core beliefs.
Another thing that really really helped me was getting over my preoccupation with older friends. My closest friend is 30 years older than me. Literally my dad's age. He is a consistent and reliable guy, and despite having somewhat different backgrounds, he's given mid-30s me a LOT of wisdom and encouragement.
Could be a lot of things and probably a bit of everything. You might have social anxiety, even if you don't feel particularly shy. If you're too clammed up, people recognize that and keep a certain distance. It could also be that you have a very rigid personality. It might simply be a matter of lack of socialization. I don't think there is any way to diagnose this and pinpoint the problem. Learning how to be social is very much a lot like learning how to program: try lots of things, spend a lot of time doing it, and don't be afraid of breaking things. Eventually you'll develop your own methods to keep people entertained and then people will take more interest in you.
Been there, done that.
BTW, you're 19 and actually at 19 this is not all that abnormal. Lots of kids in college find themselves in your situation.
Look, I’m 23 and had the same problem when I was 19 and entered college.
I have really good friends now. The actionable advice I would give is:
1. Be genuine and don’t fake yourself. Don’t try to behave in a way you think might impress someone, and don’t force yourself in trying to become someone else to become friends with someone. (Take this as a fundamental advice and I will reference it)
2. Put yourself out there. Try to be more of an extrovert. Approach people for help, If you wanna talk to someone, just talk. (And take advice 1 here, don’t fake yourself).
3. Look, there are definitely people out there who are your type and you’d be great friends. It’s just you have to keep putting yourself out there until you ‘find’ or ‘attract’ the right kind of people. Participate in events, be a part of communities.
It won’t happen if you consciously try. Don’t be on a lookout, just try to express yourself and take all opportunities to socialise.
Some of these ideas are possibly terrible, but just a brain dump:
I'd pop your head into random events in college, even if it's groups you don't feel align with you.
Try some courses that tend to require higher levels of interaction (like theatre)
I wouldn't join a fraternity, but that's a way some connect with others.
Turn yourself into a billboard, wearing T-shirts for things you like (bands, geeky things, etc). A "cool shirt" comment can start a conversation.
Start smoking. Ok, don't do that. But when I was in school it gave me a reason to congregate in the smoking section of campus. Terrible idea, but it did help me meet some people that almost 30 years later I still consider friends.
> What am I supposed to do? Be lonely and without any kind of company and human connection my entire life?
You won't be. I'm 48 now, and while I'm somewhat well adjusted, when I was your age, and even a bit older, I was such an introverted outcast. Still am, I just learned how to communicate better over time and more or less relate to people where they are, even if we are different. We all grow at different rates. That doesn't help your sense of loneliness today, but as you discover yourself and who your "tribe" is, those connections will form and grow, even if it seems impossible today.
"Turn yourself into a billboard, wearing T-shirts for things you like (bands, geeky things, etc). A "cool shirt" comment can start a conversation" .
I met my best friend of 30 years by wearing a Rush tee-shirt. It started a conversation.
No sh*t about smoking. You have whole social circles that you can easily join just for afternoon or morning smoke breaks. My head misses it but also remembers the nicotine headaches I used to get as well so I guess I’ve somehow overcome that after more than a decade after quitting. The social aspect is undeniable though, and I’m glad there is social pressure against it now, as well as limiting places where people can smoke to far off isolating places.
I am going to disagree with almost all of the advice about studying abroad or joining a club. Those are well-intended, but they are addressing the symptoms, not the cause. Judging from these descriptions:
> I’m socially anxious and keep to myself
> small talk tends to bore me
> it’s exhausting always having to text them to hang out, if I don’t then we never talk again
It's highly possible that you have undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder. I say this because I am reading a book right now about ASD[0] and a lot of this is ringing true, especially the part about being confused why friends are dropping you. Speak to a psychologist and see what they think (or read the book first, and then speak to them). I am 30 now and am just cluing in that I might be on the spectrum, and oh boy do I wish I had caught it when I was younger. (It's also possible that you don't have ASD but some other condition like avoidant personality disorder, but whatever it is, it is so much easier to solve it once you've figured it out.)
[0]: https://www.isthisautism.com/
What do you like to do? Do it with full intensity and seek IRL clubs/communities built around that activity.
What I love about the modern world is how for any niche activity there seems to be a community. You'll find that those that partake in the activity will have conversations beyond small talk. And when not talking you're doing this thing you like to do!
Its important to do it intensely and in a place with people IRL.
Focus on that for a while and you'll feel better and start hanging out with people.
I recently read that on average, people are happy about 42% of the time, maybe up to 50%. And this applies whether you are single, married, with kids, no kids, etc. So the first thing I'd do is realize that half of the time, you're not going to be "happy"; but what you can worked toward is being content, realizing that the times you aren't particularly happy are normal, and everyone has them.
If you feel very unhappy or unhappy, ie, not content, more than 30-60% of the time, you'd probably benefit from talking to a therapist and learning about how you can like yourself more. You will always have yourself throughout your life, whereas people will come and go. Learn to be your own best friend first.
No one from the comments offer a real solution. They gave advice on how to cope with it not solving the problem. Here is my two cents on a real solution, do a study abroad for a year and choose asian countries (especially china), you will find yourself very popular and will have 10x easier to make friends and girlfriend as long as you are not too weird. (note: i am asian and live in asia, foreigners (assuming from the west) have it much easier here).
I am quite a bit older than you, so my perspective is probably a bit different, but I have learned that friendships come from shared situations and experiences. You're not going to get it from books unfortunately, and the "methods" described in some books might come across as less genuine.
First of all, have realistic expectations. You might not find that _one_ friend easily that can fulfill all your needs in one package, but you can become part of friend groups. Individual connections might grow from that.
To get there:
1. Ensure you are in a place where things are happening, e.g. a larger town or city. This just gives you more options, but even small towns have things happening.
2. Become part of social hobbies, where people frequently meet at an organized time and place. e.g. team sports, local theater groups, book club, makerspace, cooking courses, etc...., whatever you have an interest in. Pick more than one if you can. Live firmly in the real world and not online.
3. Show up and keep showing up, you need to become a familiar face to people. One-off gatherings aren't great for this, but work with what you've got.
4. Participate. Are they looking for volunteers for event X, participate. Do they need someone to help do Y, participate. People are getting together to do race Z, participate. Someone needs an hour help moving some stuff, show up. No need to overdo it, just be there and be seen as a reliable part of the group.
5. Be patient.
Especially participate in new things or initiatives, the groups are less firmly set in stone and it's easier to become part of something. Plus by participating you'll learn of other things happening in the community.
If you "don't like anything", work with what's available and pick the things that are most OK. Part of liking things is doing them. If you're in a tiny village where they only play soccer once a week, well guess what, you're going to learn to play soccer now. The activity is the excuse to be around people. If small talk bores you but small talk is what's on offer, have small talk. Life is not a stream of "big moments", the mundane is the glue.
Do not expect anything. Keep any ego firmly in check. Go with the flow and be relaxed, whatever happens happens. People can smell neediness.
Good luck !
I'm not sure what help my "advice" is going to be so I'll start with a little context.
I'm near 50 and have basically zero friends. I have colleagues and acquaintances who I get along with. I'm also married with children. I always found it hard to make and keep friends.
I was badly bullied at school and felt worthless and didn't have the confidence at that time to make friends, though I couldn't see it, but I really wanted to, I just didn't know how. At the time I was lonely and depressed. I joined the military just before I was your age and had buddies until I left and it was the military that sorted me out.
With the benefit of age and lack of hormones I've come to accept that I have no friends for reasons. It doesn't bother me anymore. I've also realised I'm not a good friend, I make no effort, I'm not really interested in other people and find their problems annoying. I'm difficult and I don't really like people. And I like my own company.
Do I worry about loneliness? No, but I often wonder if I didn't have my family would I get lonely... I don't know. All I know is that at the moment I'm not and I don't think I will be. But change is constant.
All this is to say that you're young, it's likely not as bad as you think it is right now (I don't say this to lessen what you feel), and you will get passed this. Just be yourself, do what interests you and make the effort, even if it's not reciprocated. There's no shame in making unappreciated effort. Move on and don't over-think shit. Eventually it'll come.
I'm in a similar situation. Was bullied/abused as a youth, made to feel worthless, had trouble socializing, now older, fairly alone, and don't care as much. Lack of social skills become less of a trouble as one ages, I've found, depending on the circumstances, which is quite comforting.
I like to think of the set of all people you'll ever meet as a cloud of points, where the centre of the cloud is the most average person who'll ever cross your path, and the more exotic and interesting you get, the further away from the centre you sit. A really unusual person is going to be way out on the fringes, without many nearby points, and finding those points - the people who get them - is going to take time. If you're one of those people then it's going to suck, especially in the beginning. But as time passes and you start to accumulate those rare relationships where things feel like they click, you'll probably be glad of it. The people you find will almost invariably be interesting weirdos, and enriching to be around in a way that people from the centre tend not to be. And on top of that, my experience has been that they appreciate the value of a good friend.
Follow your interests and your values, be patient, and eventually you'll find into your people.
I know I'm too being vague, like all other comments in this thread. But my suggestion would be to work on feeling well/good. The energy one emanates is what attracts or pushes other people away. It is of course a very complex topic, how to reach a state of emotional well-being, but you can start by taking better care of yourself, your health and your mood will also improve.
Once your general state of health/emotional well-being improves, you'll see that this state of craving others also fades.
So how do you improve your well-being/health? The cornerstone should be paying attention to your body, your sensations, feelings and listening. Resting well when tired. Eating well. Noticing your thoughts, especially negative thoughts about yourself. Learn to be kinder to yourself. If you do these things, you'll feel better and you'll become a bit more attractive to others.
This might help https://youtu.be/6KGYCU_INVI?si=1Ds8Rez8vNbZAyV5, it has more to do with your perception, expectations, and the story you tell yourself rather than an actual state of “loneliness”.
You are going through a normal phase of growth, and need to be able to sit with discomfort and question it. You will likely find yourself cherishing these moments when you are older.
I'm curious, can you say more about what happens when you go through a conflict with someone who might be a friend? For example, when someone blames you or ignores your text or rejects you? How do you tend to feel? What do you tend to do in response?
You need to lead, talk, make friends and be outside your comfort zone. You need to make an effort.
This 1000%! Two of the most important relationships I've made (my wife, and a boss who hired me, and later became one of my dearest friends) arose when I decided to act completely differently in the moment than I habitually would. In my wife's case, this meant immediately introducing myself to a woman I found attractive, in the other when I faced a financial crunch and resolved to apply for better-paying work even if I wasn't totally qualified instead of losing hope and going on a bender.
I’d like to think I do make an effort in a way, I try to go to the events that are being held at school, I’ve joined a few clubs and I talk to some of the people there. But it doesn’t go anywhere from there. But I will admit I’m socially anxious and keep to myself, but when I see an opportunity to crack a joke I do. But still it leads no where, I’m just that funny quirky kid who made a joke at the holiday festival. I’m still an irrelevant person nobody cares about, and even if I get a few numbers, I end up having ti hold the entire “friendship” on my back until I’m tired and then it ends.
You need to push it, you can not stop, you need to make it a simple repeat loop otherwise there is no escape. Once you establish friends, act out of your comfort zone, it can become stable and your new daily routine. It's literally exposure therapy, the exposure here is to be secure in yourself and go out.
Everyone has this issue, some people have it worse. I would give anything to be normal in this regard, I've succeeded but I have a stutter which is horrible-- so imagine being able to just talk normally and go out in the world!
That last line, thats just negtative self talk. Stop that.
Anxiety and ADHD are often symptoms of CNS disorder.
These, that, kept me away from a lot of “normal people” until I figured out what was causing them for me.
> People find me funny and when I do talk to people we have decent conversations (though small talk tends to bore me). > However that doesn’t lead anywhere and doesn’t bring me any kind of comfort or fulfillment
You have two good things going for you here:
- you're able to hold a conversation with people, even if it might not be as deep a conversation as you'd like it to be.
- you're funny and can joke around with people.
It sounds like you might have some surface level relationships and want deeper connections with people, which is totally understandable. Small talk can be boring at first, but it often opens the possibility of deeper relationships. I'd recommend low-stakes/activity based social interactions and seeing where they take you.
Some ideas:
- If you're on your way to the dining hall to get a meal, ask your dorm mates if they wanna join
- Colleges have a movie night on weekends to see a movie for free, ask class mates, dorm mates to go.
- Does your campus have like a rec/game center (think pool, air hockey, games etc). Another thing to ask people to.
You might have to suffer through a lot of rejection before you get takers. After that you might have to suffer through small talk about the weather, where someone is from, what their major is, etc before you get to the deeper connections.
You’re in a tough spot. Loneliness can make people act in ways that others are put off by. You can end up trying to pull people in to help salve the pain you feel. It can perpetuate itself despite your effort.
I heard a saying once that is a hard truth that stuck with me. “If you want to be loved, be loveable.” Take stock of yourself and your confidence. Choose some areas for growth and accomplishment that you can get after independently. You’re in college so it’s a great time to build yourself with intention.
For example, learn to play music. Get into a sport. Find your interests and get after them with gusto.
Skills and interests will give opportunity for connection not just with people but with yourself. You can be so much more than you are today.
> Be lonely and without any kind of company and human connection my entire life
You may be lonely now, but you will have some different stages in life where friendship and companionship may appear.
First - when you start working you will join a team of some sorts. Just be yourself and and make sure you attend all the team nights out.
Second - traveling. You can join tour groups and visit some cool places. Don't do this to specifically find friends but you will be part of a group and have companionship for a brief period.
Thirdly - dating. You will be able to find a partner. This is most peoples main companion in life.
Fourthly - you could join a non-work team where you can have social interactions. I can't give too much advice on this one because I am not on a team like this.
Fifthly - find a co-founder and start a company
Nailing it all, thanks.
I was very lonely my first two years of college. I moved across the country to California for school and I don’t think 10 people knew my name by the end of my 2nd year. It was borderline debilitating and honestly reading your comment brings back a lot of those memories. The two things that helped me were getting off my phone/internet and going to therapy. Your things will most likely be different. A lot of people will tell you to join clubs etc. This is more or less the right answer with the caveat being that you most likely will not make “real” friends from these if you’re not open to connection. I was in jazz ensemble my first two years of college and made 0 friends. It wasn’t until after therapy/getting into a relationship with someone from a dating app that I started making friends. Probably from the increased confidence? Not sure. I’m now a senior and I’m just starting to actually develop “real” friendships.
Feel free to reach me at alexbwell12 at gmail dot com. Don’t have any crazy wisdom to pass down — just know how much it sucked for me.
Join a club or professional fraternity (highly recommend). You'll make lifelong friends. You have to get out there and make it happen and don't bail if it seems daunting or makes you nervous.
If you live on campus (you definitely should if possible), make friends with the people who live in your dorm. Keep your door open at all times and be friendly to everyone around. People will just drop in. If your uni has college basketball or football, become a fan of the team and go to the games or watch em in the dorm.
In college you have tons of people around you with all sorts of different backgrounds. Rest assured, someone will have common interests with you and will find you fascinating. You don't need a lot of friends in this life, just a few good ones. Not everyone will like you, that's okay.
I'd also recommend talking to a professional, you might need to practice your social interactions. They have groups for this sorta thing if they deem you ready, but there's something more going on that has put you in this situation I'd wager.
Good luck!
> What am I supposed to do? Be lonely and without any kind of company and human connection my entire life?
This is called catastrophizing. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/catastrophizing
If you take nothing else away from my comment, I would suggest finding out why you do that, and try to change that mental behavior. It might not directly help with loneliness, but it might make your life more satisfactory.
That said, while other folks on HN will have some advice you'll find useful, I'm not sure how applicable my experiences are to anyone else. My advice would be to examine the things you're interested in, especially if they're weird or "cringe", and find people who share those interests. Be shamelessly authentic.
If you don't have any such interests, I dunno.
I have a ridiculous amount of interest I could share. I will take your advice and see if I can find people who share those interest! I will also try and change my thoughts. It’s just hard to not feel like the world is closing in when it feels like nobody acknowledges your existence.
Why do you care if people acknowledge your existence?
Some people would love that and see it as a super power. Lots of interesting things going on in the world to explore, you should consider that what you think is the issue is not the answer, it has enough of it's own problems. People are annoying and get in the way of enjoying many things. Go enjoy life and stuff first, your 19, plenty of time to find friends along the way.
I think there's some good advice on this thread. Your issue definitely resonates with me, college was very lonely for me as well. HN itself doesn't lend itself to continued conversation (long threads lose their [reply] button and repeated postings from new accounts can turn automatically comments [dead], as in your case). You don't have an email posted, but you can –if you want– message mine. Just say "From HN", or whatever! I (internet rando) would like to talk to you.
Drop me a line if you would like to talk. Email is in the profile.
I’m sorry you’re feeling so isolated. It’s really hard to be in a situation where you feel like your attempts don’t go anywhere. But the good news is things can get better really fast. Finding your people in college is one of the best things. I’m not really good at faking a lot of social stuff so I relate a to your frustration. The good news is people respond really well to people who have a genuine interest in them. So it sounds like you need to go find some people you find interesting and interact with them. I was trying to make friends in Seattle recently and I thought that one of the most experienced scuba divers in Seattle wouldn’t want to be my dive partner because they had so much more experience, but my interest in what they were doing closed the gap and now they’re a close friend of mine and I’ve learned so much about scuba diving.
This isn’t what you asked but I would remove all social media from your phone. Nothing makes you lonelier than social media. Facebook and instagram should be the first to go. TikTok as well. Delete them and watch if you start to feel better.
As for the other. Most friends I’ve ever met went like this: meet at an event relating to a shared interest (first you have to go to things, next you have to talk to people): find a person I genuinely like and respect, talk to them, do something together (study, eat, coffee), listen more than you talk, try to be as good a friend to them as possible.
And I’m easy. Anyone wants to be my friend and I’ll be theirs. (So long as they treat me as a friend —don’t get me started about people who claim to be friends but who don’t treat me like a friend). This leads me to having some really weird friends. This also leads me to having friends who always treat me right.
I’m an introvert so I tend to prioritize small numbers of deep connections over many shallow friendships. Everyplace I go I find the person I like best and I try to get to know them. I talk to them, listen, hear what they’re about, engage with things they find interesting.
At 19 you’ve never had a friend? I honestly don’t believe it. I suspect you’re experiencing a depressive episode that is clouding your memory. Every child has had a friend. In grade school or middle school. Call your mother and ask her (I’m serious). I honestly think you’re not remembering clearly. It happens, I don’t know how to fix it, but looking for it might’ve a start. (If you haven’t I’d start looking for something you’re doing that drives people away. But I honestly don’t think you could be doing something without knowing it)
Join clubs for things you find interesting. Get a job doing things you find interesting. Do favors for people, ask favors of people. Look for friendships in unlikely places. I once became friends with a professor who I did computer work for. We just got along. He invited me over for dinner with him and his wife. I was on his Christmas list (he made mix cds for people, I still have two he made me)
> At 19 you’ve never had a friend? I honestly don’t believe it. I suspect you’re experiencing a depressive episode that is clouding your memory.
Gaslighting people is not a good way to help them.
I do not know your interests, but if you like bicycling, I would look into a joining a recreational cycling club and ride with them. These tend to be low key events and you can make friends there.
Go to Reddit with this kind of thing, seriously
what the hell
People will suggest what works for them, sometimes it will apply, often it will not. You have to find what works for you, and maybe multiple times because once you graduate, you will find yourself back in the same situation.
The best suggestion I received was to imagine where I wanted to be long term, and to go on working on that. Somehow it took me out of the loop of trying to find an answer outside of my own self.
The other thing that helped was to stop trying to do the same as what others around are (saying they are) doing and be honest with myself and others about what I wanted.
Learn a bit from GenX, booze up ;) Don't do it irresponsibly thou. Find your tolerance.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/aug/15/booze-gen-z-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTKaM_bu9iY
With no existing social network in place, they'd need to put some thought into working out how not to just end up as a solo drunk.
Personally, I'd recommend organised wine or whisky tastings - or perhaps their college has a cheese & wine society?
Do you have any hobbies or interests outside of school? If you're passionate about something, you'll be more interesting to people. It'll give you personality. Even if they don't have the same interest, they will ask you about it. And obviously, you'll also meet people who have the same interests.
I'll give you an extreme example: there was a Claude AI chatbot that was obsessed with the Golden Gate Bridge. This bot (a computer... a machine) had personality and was considered quirky, funny, endearing, and people loved it.
I like programming, electronics, reading, maths and am getting a bike this week so I can spend more time outside! I love talking about these things with other people, and from what I can gather from their body language and facial expressions they also enjoy hearing what I have to say about my interest. But I also enjoy letting them talk about what they like to do so I can get to know them!
Maybe also try hiking as more people are into it, plus more opportunity to chat compared to biking. Look for hiking groups in your college. There will be bikers in that group too.
Also, any activity where you see the same people on a regular basis so they get to know you is great.
You might try to find some local group or club about one of you interests. Having common ground might help.
sounds great, don't forget to join your local makerspace / hackerspace !
Group rides, coffee outside, bike packing are all amazing ways to make friends. Shared adventures however small make long lasting bonds.
I had the same issue after college. I joined a meetup group and made lots of friends over the course of a few years. It's been over a decade now, and I'm still friends with many of them.
Making friends is a lot of work, can be uncomfortable, and it takes time.
One cool thing about university is that there are lots of clubs you can join. I'd suggest you go find a club you're interested in and participate every week. Talk to people when you get the opportunity. I've read it takes around five times attending a group before people start taking your attendance seriously enough start investing time in getting to know you. Give it a few months and I'll bet you have some acquaintances that could become friends.
You are 19. Why do you care? Who gives a damn? Most people are a waste of time, so why are you wasting so much time thinking about that?
The problem when you are 19 is you don't realise that you are young. You are already using language like 'my entire life', your entire life is nothing right now, most of that time you were way too young to even have much of a life apart from being a child.
So my advice is just relax, it doesn't matter. The issue is you think it does and I get you, because that is what everyone thinks at that age, but trust me when you are older you will understand, the issue is not much is going to help you right now and you prob think I am being a dick. But if you somehow remember this post in ten years time, you will be like 'that guy was right'
Go explore and enjoy life. You can do that on your own and the more you do that and the more you can get from that, the more other people will want to be around you and then it will be up to you if you want to let them in or not.
Get used to it. Culture your independence. Learn how to sit alone in a room by yourself and enjoy your thoughts. Get off the doom scrolling life path and love yourself.
youre not going to find an answer on hackernews go outside
There's a loneliness epidemic in our generation. I'm 20 and share the same situation. I've heard scattered bits of advice from older people:
- travel as much as you possibly can
- get out of the house and as much as you can
- talk to strangers more
Hey yresting!
Look at all these comments chiming in with advice or similar stories. No way to tell how useful they are for you in particular but pretty neat how many people responded to your personal question outreach on a tech forum.
I don't have advice for you but I (and apparently lots of other folks here) feel for you and want good things for you just because you're a person and I think that's nice.
The holidays can be pretty depressing but we're almost through and I think you'll be ok.
I don't like to overpromise and I'm busy as hell but if you want another surface level friend (or at least some candid feedback) via email I'm game (hn @ <my username>.com). You mentioned this isn't really missing in your life so no worries but if you're feeling like the world is closing in maybe it can help.
Good luck out there. You've got this.
Don't ask Hacker News. One of the biggest challenges in life is building a set of contacts worth listening to about life. HN can only intermittently put proper context and nuance around statements regarding software. Forget about anything else.
You’re definitely not alone in feeling this way, even if it feels isolating. Small routines and low-pressure social spaces helped me more than forcing myself into big social situations.
You havent mentioned whether you are doing any after school activities?
Join any club where you can interact socially, like martial arts, boxing, any group sports, dancing.. or if not into that try chess/literature/board games/music clubs.
Not 100% guaranteed it will find you good friends, but you will get social interactions and be able to practice social skills.
This is maybe a bit of boomer advice, but if you are a young man you wont have many friends unless you can provide value to others, or unless they think they can get something out you, that something can be as little as social currency or being interesting to hang around with, which comes from skills and life experience.
Talk to a specialist like a therapist. Have them give you an honest assessment of how you present yourself. Maybe there's something you're doing or saying, or even the way you look, that you're not aware of and has caused people to keep their distance from you.
Given how long you've claimed you've been like this, it's very likely behavioral; you're giving off some characteristic that is telling most people you meet that you're not worth spending time with. It might be something as simple as avoiding eye contact, or strange body language, or not knowing how to hold even a rudimentary, surface-level conversation. These are all skills that can be learned, especially when you're still young.
I was in a similar situation when I was younger; grew up relatively isolated, barely had any friends, etc. I was socially deprived and abused as a child, and have a speech impediment that has made socializing difficult at times, but I learned how to listen and ask questions and get to know people, and I actually became quite the social butterfly for a good chunk of my 20s and 30s.
Now that I'm older, I'm back to being more isolated for personal reasons, but my life is different now and I don't care as much about it, nor am I as reliant on social connections as I used to be. Frankly, I never felt I fit in anywhere, nor have I ever truly liked anyone beyond whatever immediate social gratification I needed filling in the moment. Friendships and connections have always been fleeting, overhyped, and overblown to me, especially when I look back at my life so far and struggle to think of anyone I still care about.
Social connections are important when you're younger, but I've found the older you get, the less important they become, especially if you're smart about how you live your life.
I haven't tried this myself and this might be absurd, but attending PhD defences might be an interesting way to meet new people
This may not make you feel better, but I was lonely until maybe age 25. That was the year I graduated and started my first job and made my first two real friends. Before that I sat alone in the back of the lecture hall in University and hated on all the fun-having classmates.
Age 25 was also when I met my first girlfriend that lasted less than a year. Age 34 was when I met my second girlfriend, who became my wife, and how we are separated. Long story short, I'm pretty content with my life now. You can say I'm a bit of a late bloomer.
I thought I would be alone forever too, so much so that in college I aspired to be a Buddhist monk.
What helped me was learning how to be less socially awkward through work interactions. When I was 32 I solo backpacked Europe which made me seem like a more interesting person. Also I'm a bit of a people pleaser and I was helpful to some key people in my life and they are now my good friends. Also I saved and invested a good chunk of my income which kind of helps overall with confidence.
> People find me funny and when I do talk to people we have decent conversations (though small talk tends to bore me). However that doesn’t lead anywhere and doesn’t bring me any kind of comfort or fulfillment. I’ve attributed my lack of friends to something that places all the blame on me. Maybe I’m ugly, maybe I’m not funny enough, maybe I’m dumb.
I've felt all those things at some point. You don't have to be attractive or funny or a genius. I've always walked around with these recurring fantasies of being some secretly impressive superhero that saved the day publicly or had all these amazing talents and everyone would realize my worth. I realize now that everyone is too into their own lives to care, and even if they seem to admire something about you, they see it from the perspective of how it benefits themselves. This is absolutely fine, and human.
I guess what I'm saying is that you'll grow out of this phase. Right now I have all the friends I could ever want, ironically at a phase I'm my life I want to be more solitary.
Wish I knew. I was at the same place at you at that age and it's basically destroyed me, 32 now and no better off
I am guessing everyday you are getting a chance to make a friend, but somehow it doesn’t work out.
So let’s invert it: what prevents/kills friendships?
- lying (for whatever reason) - talking too much about yourself - not asking people about their lives - being too private - being too judgmental - not empathizing - e.g. someone tells you about something hard they’re experiencing and you change the subject - not caring to help (also showing you don’t care about others that aren’t in your friend-zone) - not offering help - not being kind - not smiling (more like makes it hard for people to approach you)
Most of us want/need friends. Most of us want/need to talk to others about our lives. Someone just moved to where you live. They need a friend. They will strike a conversation w anyone.
Even people in your past probably wanted to be your friend (either coz they thought you were cool or they just needed a friend) - you can still be friends with them. I’ve become friends w people I met long after meeting them.
Asking someone how they are is not so much about the other person. It’s mostly a social ritual. But if no one is asking you how you are, they might also be intimidated by you.
As Aaron Burr would say: talk less, smile more - jk, do more of both.
talking is a skill to hone. i'd recommend plato's republic to learn a very invigorating strategy to keep conversations entertaining.
if you want someone to ask you how your day is, you need to ask them how their's is.
Go find any ministry and volunteer, it will help a lot with loneliness and depression.
1. Learn to love yourself. I know it sound eye rolls but hear me out! You are trying too hard. You don't need to read books to get friends and you're neither ugly nor dumb - the friendships don't care about any of it. Your genuineness shows in every action, look and gesture so look within. You might need to get therapy and that's okay too. Don't put so much pressure on yourself, you are fine just the way you are. Once you have learned to love yourself / look within you will be able to be by yourself without feeling lonely and just like that you'll attract the right kind of people towards you. I hope it helps and I hope you feel better soon!
Maybe you can ask for phone numbers and call people who you like to converse with?
I do! But it’s exhausting always having to text them to hang out, if I don’t then we never talk again. I had a “friend” I consistently texted for 2 - 3 months and it seemed like everything was alright, I then had some personal things I had to take care of and wasn’t able to talk to them. I never heard from them again. Ouch.
One option is to find a good doctor/psychiatrist/therapist and try to get diagnosed. (You can also try to self-diagnose via the Interne, your favorite LLM, or just skimming the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5, but that's a risker option due to false positives and noise.)
If you do have a well-studied issue such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder that interferes with socialization, you can find support groups and people who have been able to succeed even with those issues.
Some of these social problems (e.g, ones caused by missing childhood socialization experiences) are curable through practice, but others will require you to learn enough about human social behavior to mask until someone figures out a cure. It can be exhausting, (just like physical exercise can be exhausting) but it's a useful skill to have in order to do well in life.
Good luck.
Go help others.
take hobbies (possibly that involve multiple persons) and defocus your loneliness. your generation is kinda fucked (covid & social media) and as a group you'll all have to grow up out of it. but it's not something you can fix easily in a short time. so yeah, focus on something else for now.
You're asking the wrong crowd bub. We're mostly tech nerds driven to computers by loneliness (or lack of social skills).
Join an interest group on Meetup maybe.
I've had some success with Meetup (tech meetups specifically). The app/site is terrible though and I think the fees on organizers can be hefty nowadays, so look on the Meetup alternatives, since there might be groups posted to those too.