Designers have a choice in lithium-ion though. 18650 is is pretty large cell but there's 14500 which is AA sized or 10440 which is AAA sized. They make versions with the usual battery "nub" rather than the flat faces for spot welding, and built-in protection circuitry to prevent over-discharging. You probably would want to use ones of a different size than normal 1.5v cells though. A personal favorite of mine is RCR123A/16340.
Even many of the pouch cells come in "standard"-ish sizes. An 803860 is nominally 8.0mm x 38mm x 60mm, but I am seeing more custom sizes recently.
Meanwhile, alkaline batteries can go to hell. You might as well plan on one leaking in the battery compartment. My favorite non-rechargable AAs are Li-FeS2, which never leak and have spectacularly low self discharge (especially good for multi-year ultra-low-power projects), but are dammed expensive.
My Xbox 360 controllers are still in use. Meanwhile, I've resigned myself to never using any PlayStation controllers for more than three or four years.
AA and AAA batteries are great. I wish using them weren't considered a negative by many hardware reviewers.
> It would be faster to leave the batteries in my tools, but over 40 years of sacrificing devices to alkaline cell leakage, it's my habit not to. So far I've never had leakage problems with the eneloops, but old habits die hard.
I've gotten burned by that too, but I just try to remember to take out the batteries before I put something into storage.
BTW, I think the old-style "heavy duty" batteries and lithium AAs don't have a leakage problem. Though lithium AAs are now ridiculously expensive. I think they went from $1 a cell to $2 in cell in a Sam's Club 18-cell bulk back over a couple of years.
The Xbox 360 was the most gamer friendly console (play your open music during games?!?) but one feature i loved was the battery packs. Your controller died? Just swap a pack - two seconds. And the packs could be rechargeable or AA so you could have a bunch of rechargeable AA for a fair price and never get bogged down waiting for anything to charge.
Series X controllers still work this way. Takes standard-ass AA batteries, including rechargeables; or you can buy a bespoke charge pack[1] which actually supports charging while in the controller.
Am I courting disaster by reviving won't-charge pouch cells by just manually running a bit of current through them until they're nonzero volts and then a normal charger will do the rest? So far, in the maybe half dozen times I've tried it (rectangular battery blocks for old digital cameras, the pouch cell inside a long-disused Kobo Reader) it's worked. They charge right up, they don't swell, and they still have decent capacity.
I'm running at the hairy edge and only high quality safety engineering is protecting me here? Or these cells can take a lot more abuse than they're given credit for?
The best thing about Eneloops do not seem to leak. I can just leave them in rarely used electronic devices without worrying. They might discharge, but so far this has never been a problem.
Alkaline batteries only have 1.5V for a short time. In practice, toys are designed to opeerate off of 1V to 1.5V, because Alkalines vary _wildly_ in voltage during use.
NiMH at 1.2V _STAYS_ at 1.2V, even when drawing 1Amp or more (under these conditions, Alkaline would have long dropped below 1V).
EDIT: This is also a problem because "nicer toys" will measure the voltage assuming an Alkaline is "full" at 1.5V and dies at 1.0V. However, NiMH starts at 1.35V, then "plateau" at 1.2V, and stays there for most of its life, before rapidly falling off to 1.0V or .8V like a cliff at the end of its life. So NiMH life "cannot be predicted" by any simple metric.
I believe I have zero Alkaline batteries left in my house and I'm relatively surprised that pretty much everything works fine. If anything, I suspect the only problem is that some devices have an inaccurate account of how dead the batteries are. But I use Eneloops on everything, even things surely not designed at all to run on them. (And I reckon you could probably make more devices work if you really wanted to; adding an additional cell or two in series would surely give you a voltage that's in range, if you can figure out a good way to do it.)
Of course not all rechargable batteries are the same; there are a few different rechargable battery chemistries in the AA form factor. I like Eneloop Pros, though; they've been very reliable for me. I've been using them for years and I've never had to throw one out yet; supposedly they last over a thousand cycles with most of their capacity.
I think I have only one device that uses AA - my central heating's radio thermostat. This thing has caused me untold hassle, which is only partially down to the batteries, but still...
Totally OT, but does anyone have a good link on how the thermostat gets paired with the boiler? I'm thinking of getting replaced and would like to talk to the gas fitter from a vaguely informed point of view.
You can now find 1.5V Li-on AA batteries with, and that's a game changer, built-in charger and a type-C port!
I have one in my wireless mouse. If it dies, I change it to a spare and charge it right from my laptop (and the battery that was empty becomes the spare)
Came here to post this. I'm 100% agreed with Mr. Geerling.
For a fun challenge try to find a non-built-in-battery arc lighter (eg: candles, grills, etc). When I found one I bought four (think camping/disaster bag... if everything is AA/AAA then having a shelf-stable fire starter is easier/safer than lighter fluid).
For a fun sidebar check out the "Panasonic BQ-CC87AKBBA" which is effectively a combo "in/out" battery charger OR USB battery pack(!). It'll suck in (unfortunately) Micro-USB and charge your AA's, then switch a button and it'll spit that power back out as a battery bank. When I find one like that for USB-C, it's going on my christmas list.
Look up plastic battery holders that hold 8-10 along with a 4x charger and I just swap batteries out and recharge them into that buffer/holding cell. I'll have to look into the Eneloops as I've been working with the Amazon Basics and generally have 1-2 batteries fail out every few months (and am specifically looking for heat-resistant / outdoor applications).
Last one: Lots of cheap solar products have cheap rechargeable AA batteries inside... you can generally open them up and swap the battery out if they're not working any more (and/or potentially scavenge the charging panel if you think about it!).
A weird flipside is things like... the IKEA Zigbee devices. Many of these do not work right at all with 1.5V batteries and basically require rechargables.
Speaking of which, I really hate those chargers that force you to use two batteries instead of one. I get that it is cheaper to design it that way, but come on.
NiMH chemistry allows for safe overcharging though. If the chemistry allows for it, why not take advantage of it and have cheaper chargers?
The downside is that "save overcharging" only works at very low charging rates. That's why the double-charger designs all have 10+ hour charge times (mine actually has a 20-hour charge time).
But in practice? Its cheaper to buy 4 extra AA NiMH batteries to keep charged rather than upgrade to the faster chargers. So just keep some spares topped off and you should be fine.
Designers have a choice in lithium-ion though. 18650 is is pretty large cell but there's 14500 which is AA sized or 10440 which is AAA sized. They make versions with the usual battery "nub" rather than the flat faces for spot welding, and built-in protection circuitry to prevent over-discharging. You probably would want to use ones of a different size than normal 1.5v cells though. A personal favorite of mine is RCR123A/16340.
Even many of the pouch cells come in "standard"-ish sizes. An 803860 is nominally 8.0mm x 38mm x 60mm, but I am seeing more custom sizes recently.
Meanwhile, alkaline batteries can go to hell. You might as well plan on one leaking in the battery compartment. My favorite non-rechargable AAs are Li-FeS2, which never leak and have spectacularly low self discharge (especially good for multi-year ultra-low-power projects), but are dammed expensive.
My Xbox 360 controllers are still in use. Meanwhile, I've resigned myself to never using any PlayStation controllers for more than three or four years.
AA and AAA batteries are great. I wish using them weren't considered a negative by many hardware reviewers.
> It would be faster to leave the batteries in my tools, but over 40 years of sacrificing devices to alkaline cell leakage, it's my habit not to. So far I've never had leakage problems with the eneloops, but old habits die hard.
I've gotten burned by that too, but I just try to remember to take out the batteries before I put something into storage.
BTW, I think the old-style "heavy duty" batteries and lithium AAs don't have a leakage problem. Though lithium AAs are now ridiculously expensive. I think they went from $1 a cell to $2 in cell in a Sam's Club 18-cell bulk back over a couple of years.
The Xbox 360 was the most gamer friendly console (play your open music during games?!?) but one feature i loved was the battery packs. Your controller died? Just swap a pack - two seconds. And the packs could be rechargeable or AA so you could have a bunch of rechargeable AA for a fair price and never get bogged down waiting for anything to charge.
Series X controllers still work this way. Takes standard-ass AA batteries, including rechargeables; or you can buy a bespoke charge pack[1] which actually supports charging while in the controller.
[1] https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/batteries-chargers/pl...
Am I courting disaster by reviving won't-charge pouch cells by just manually running a bit of current through them until they're nonzero volts and then a normal charger will do the rest? So far, in the maybe half dozen times I've tried it (rectangular battery blocks for old digital cameras, the pouch cell inside a long-disused Kobo Reader) it's worked. They charge right up, they don't swell, and they still have decent capacity.
I'm running at the hairy edge and only high quality safety engineering is protecting me here? Or these cells can take a lot more abuse than they're given credit for?
I've jump-started my share of batteries this way. Such a deep discharge might affect lifespan but it's typically old devices we do this to anyway.
The best thing about Eneloops do not seem to leak. I can just leave them in rarely used electronic devices without worrying. They might discharge, but so far this has never been a problem.
> run at a nominal 1.2V instead of the 1.5V of alkaline batteries.
I've suddenly figured out why so many toys don't work with rechargeable batteries
That's not the reason.
Alkaline batteries only have 1.5V for a short time. In practice, toys are designed to opeerate off of 1V to 1.5V, because Alkalines vary _wildly_ in voltage during use.
NiMH at 1.2V _STAYS_ at 1.2V, even when drawing 1Amp or more (under these conditions, Alkaline would have long dropped below 1V).
EDIT: This is also a problem because "nicer toys" will measure the voltage assuming an Alkaline is "full" at 1.5V and dies at 1.0V. However, NiMH starts at 1.35V, then "plateau" at 1.2V, and stays there for most of its life, before rapidly falling off to 1.0V or .8V like a cliff at the end of its life. So NiMH life "cannot be predicted" by any simple metric.
I believe I have zero Alkaline batteries left in my house and I'm relatively surprised that pretty much everything works fine. If anything, I suspect the only problem is that some devices have an inaccurate account of how dead the batteries are. But I use Eneloops on everything, even things surely not designed at all to run on them. (And I reckon you could probably make more devices work if you really wanted to; adding an additional cell or two in series would surely give you a voltage that's in range, if you can figure out a good way to do it.)
Of course not all rechargable batteries are the same; there are a few different rechargable battery chemistries in the AA form factor. I like Eneloop Pros, though; they've been very reliable for me. I've been using them for years and I've never had to throw one out yet; supposedly they last over a thousand cycles with most of their capacity.
I think I have only one device that uses AA - my central heating's radio thermostat. This thing has caused me untold hassle, which is only partially down to the batteries, but still...
Totally OT, but does anyone have a good link on how the thermostat gets paired with the boiler? I'm thinking of getting replaced and would like to talk to the gas fitter from a vaguely informed point of view.
You can now find 1.5V Li-on AA batteries with, and that's a game changer, built-in charger and a type-C port!
I have one in my wireless mouse. If it dies, I change it to a spare and charge it right from my laptop (and the battery that was empty becomes the spare)
Came here to post this. I'm 100% agreed with Mr. Geerling.
For a fun challenge try to find a non-built-in-battery arc lighter (eg: candles, grills, etc). When I found one I bought four (think camping/disaster bag... if everything is AA/AAA then having a shelf-stable fire starter is easier/safer than lighter fluid).
For a fun sidebar check out the "Panasonic BQ-CC87AKBBA" which is effectively a combo "in/out" battery charger OR USB battery pack(!). It'll suck in (unfortunately) Micro-USB and charge your AA's, then switch a button and it'll spit that power back out as a battery bank. When I find one like that for USB-C, it's going on my christmas list.
Look up plastic battery holders that hold 8-10 along with a 4x charger and I just swap batteries out and recharge them into that buffer/holding cell. I'll have to look into the Eneloops as I've been working with the Amazon Basics and generally have 1-2 batteries fail out every few months (and am specifically looking for heat-resistant / outdoor applications).
Last one: Lots of cheap solar products have cheap rechargeable AA batteries inside... you can generally open them up and swap the battery out if they're not working any more (and/or potentially scavenge the charging panel if you think about it!).
If they don't work at 1.2V they weren't very good quality to begin with. AAs are dead at 1.0 or 0.9V.
There are a lot of low–quality toys.
A weird flipside is things like... the IKEA Zigbee devices. Many of these do not work right at all with 1.5V batteries and basically require rechargables.
Whats the energy/volume comparison between standard AA batteries and li-ion batteries?
Can’t exactly relate to the post. I never had a device die on me like that. All my devices with Li-ion batteries are “daily drivers”.
I do tend to keep charge between 20-80% where possible, and fortunately haven’t seen significant battery degradation.
I’m on a 4 year old iPhone and even that easily gets me through the day still on 80% charge.
My only AA device is my HHKB keyboard and I wish it had a USB-C rechargeable battery instead.
I did something similar with my old 286 system. The CMOS battery failed and I rigged up a replacement using velcro and 4 AA batteries. Worked great.
Sadly I had to toss that system when I moved to a smaller apartment :(
Looking back, tossing it was a huge mistake.
> Looking back, tossing it was a huge mistake.
On the other hand, being afraid of ending up with similar feelings like you, I keep stuff.
So I sit here in a room where I'm probably one or two arms-length away from VGA and DVI cables and other relics, "just in case".
Speaking of which, I really hate those chargers that force you to use two batteries instead of one. I get that it is cheaper to design it that way, but come on.
NiMH chemistry allows for safe overcharging though. If the chemistry allows for it, why not take advantage of it and have cheaper chargers?
The downside is that "save overcharging" only works at very low charging rates. That's why the double-charger designs all have 10+ hour charge times (mine actually has a 20-hour charge time).
But in practice? Its cheaper to buy 4 extra AA NiMH batteries to keep charged rather than upgrade to the faster chargers. So just keep some spares topped off and you should be fine.