Many of you might know of Noisebridge, a beloved hackerspace in San Francisco. They had (have?) a juggling workshop every saturday called "Juggling with Judy", taught by Judy Pinelli, founder of the famed Pickle Family Circus (and a huge influence on Cirque Du Soleil).
I had no idea how famous or influential she was. She first taught us how to make our own juggling balls: snip the ends of a balloon, fill with enough rice to feel comfortable in the hand, then wrap that with another balloon to seal the rice in, then snip the ends of the second balloon.
Then she went through the usual sequence: throw a ball, er, balloon, from one hand to the next, then practice with two and so on. By the end of that 2 hour session, we had got the essentials.
The remarkable thing about this workshop was that Judy was at an advanced stage of multiple sclerosis at that point. She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
After the 2 hour workshop, she'd go to Golden Gate park to teach juggling. All for free. I feel extraordinarily privileged. She's been my polestar in life.
> She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
I've both been a coach (paintball/martial arts) and been coached (golf) and it really is wild how good your brain can become at seeing the outcome or just a piece of the process and then working backwards to a root cause.
I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you don't actually see the collision. You see the after effects and then figure out what happened by going backwards to what must have occurred."
>> I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you don't actually see the collision. You see the after effects and then figure out what happened by going backwards to what must have occurred."
I keep coming back to that. Nobody has ever directly seen direct the force carrying particles, only their effects (indirect evidence). The models make excellent predictions, but I still feel like they're "wrong" in some sense.
This is the only fact we know for certain in physics; we know for sure that our existing models are incorrect. But they sure are great at lots of stuff and correctly predict lots of phenomenon so until someone can come up with a better model they're likely to continue to be used widely!
This is one of the nice things about the juggling community: it's one of the open, sharing communities where people are willing to freely share and teach. It's no cost/low cost entry. The juggling community has been a really important part of my life, so I see it as giving back to teach others.
If a balloon is made of a thin neck and a round body, you're chopping the neck off near the bottom of the neck. You're then left with a round rubber pouch for the contents (rice). Use two balloons in opposite directions so the closed end of the outer layer covers the opening of the inner layer.
Great for juggling balls - nice weight and very grippy.
Indeed. Do not blow up the balloon. Just use it as a rubber pouch. If anything is still unclear, describe as detailed as you can the difficulty you're visualizing.
The technique I've used to fill a balloon with rice:
- Take a small plastic drinks bottle.
- Cut the bottom half off to make it like a funnel.
- Remove the lid, and stretch a balloon over the neck.
- Invert the half bottle so the balloon over the bottle-neck is hanging underneath.
- When you tip some rice into the funnel, only a few grains will fall into the uninflated balloon.
- Now put your mouth/cheeks against the open end of the bottle/funnel and blow. This will partially inflate the balloon, and all the rice will fall in. Done!
Outside of more complicated tricks like the claw and other specialized patterns, the most common juggling patterns (such as the cascade [1]) don’t rely as much on pure handeye coordination as they do on maintaining a consistent, even toss. The key is throwing each ball so it rises and falls in a predictable arc, so it lands approximately in the same spot where your other hand is waiting to catch it.
When I teach complete beginners, I actually start with a set of special handkerchiefs. They fall more slowly than balls, which gives learners more time to react and makes it much easier to see and follow the path of each object through the air.
My favourite technique is after the initial two ball crosses was for me to stand in for their left (or non dominant) hand.
You stand slightly behind your pupil and get them to put their left hand behind their back and you put your left hand about where theirs should be. You give them one ball in their right hand and then you start the pattern with two balls.
Most people are amazed to find themselves juggling at this point. Yes, you are correcting their mistakes but it gives a real feeling of juggling for them. Most people manage 10 catches quite easily at this point.
Once they have the hang of that swap sides. This one is harder, don't do it too long before setting them off on 3 and they can practice themselves from here on.
I have taught 100s of people to juggle like that :-)
Some of us had a juggling party at a lake. All amateurs, i.e. few could manage much with clubs. An international juggling award winner (don't remember more than that) found out, joined us, and had a number of us partner juggling flaming torches pretty quickly, and kept pushing us into more and more techniques. The quality of the coach matters!
That's a neat approach! It's not really the same, but it kind of reminds me of an interview they did with Michael Moschen (the guy who performed the contact juggling scene in Jim Henson’s movie Labyrinth). He talked about how difficult it was because he had to thread his arms underneath David Bowie’s, so he couldn’t actually see the acrylic ball while he was doing the contact juggling.
A long time ago (pre-internet) I heard a normal person can learn to juggle in 1 day. It took me 2 days, but I learned to juggle 3 balls. But soon I realized what you said, the need for a consistent toss. Not sure of the reason, but I always make some errors with physical movements, they are never perfect. Even with typing, no matter how much I exercise, I cannot get bellow ~3% errors. Wondering if this is some kind of genetic effect, and how many ppl have similar issues.
I haven’t tried juggling for decades but I did manage to teach myself basic three-ball juggling when I was at university (any excuse to avoid revising!)
I think it took me a couple of weeks though. I’m a bit malcoordinated for that sort of thing in general. I think you’re right that there’s some sort of natural aptitude that not everybody has. Fortunately basic juggling is just about easy enough that almost any idiot can do it.
This made me laugh. The number of times I’ve Admiral Ackbar fat-fingered the flag button when I just wanted to hide a post on HN is almost too many to count at this point.
It's crazy how much you don't actually need to look at your hands. I learned juggling a long time ago, and I remember discovering this. It feels like you become good at predicting from the top of the arc where you need to place your hand so that it intersects with the arc. I was surprised to see that as I got better, I also started catching the balls where the throw was a little off and I had to extend my arm to catch it, but still without actually looking at my hands. And at some point it becomes automatic and fast.
There was this one time when I was grocery shopping (I had been practicing a lot at that point), and someone accidentally pushed a jar off a shelf, and I caught it without looking or even thinking. I felt a little bit like a super hero with super reflexes :-)
Definitely true! A good way to practice and make sure you’re working on throw consistency rather than pure reflexes is to juggle while watching a TV show. It’s even better if it’s something like subbed anime, so you have to read the subtitles while you juggle.
The way I taught myself to juggle was something I don't see very often in guides, but I think works quite well — I taught myself to juggle two balls in one hand, until I could do it with both hands, and then three ball juggling with two hands was just doing the exact same thing, but crossing.
Yeah I have wondered about that as a method. You can even just go two balls in one hand, then switch to the other side and back, and that's almost the 3 ball pattern.
It's been a while since I taught anyone to juggle, but I generally disrecommended scarf juggling. It's fine if you want some quick validation, but the hand movements are so different from balls/bags that I don't think the skills are transferable.
I prefer the method described in the original post. Just start with one ball and get that right, then two, then three. It's a bit like the Karate Kid, though. Students don't find it as satisfying because they want to jump ahead before they've got the movement down.
The scarves I use, as I mentioned in another thread, are actually weighted. They fall more like a traditional ball, just significantly slower. I’ve found that this works pretty well for teaching, but of course everyone learns differently.
Every time I got better at dancing I got better at juggling too. In my folk psychology, juggling is a partially-attached extension of your hands, so it’s just weird dancing.
If you think of it like 3 jobs you have to do simultaneously everything falls apart. Internalizing the three balls as a single process that you are participating in makes it a lot more manageable.
Of course the only way to get there is some 10s of hours of practice
Yeah I could see that. I think that because dance is so heavily reliant on proprioceptive abilities, it makes sense that there would be some overlap with juggling.
I wonder if juggling positive buoyancy balloons upside down would develop skills transferable to right side up. You can make those as slow as you want. When jugglers juggle balls against the floor I guess they don't start from scratch.
Lol. I’ve juggled non-buoyant, air filled balloons but because of their elasticity they don’t exactly settle into your hand when they land.
In my juggling routine, one of the things I do is transition to lying on my back face up while continuing to juggle. I’m throwing the balls straight up above my head while lying perfectly flat, which feels pretty weird. So I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to be physically upside down while juggling.
Oh waw, I had totally forgotten about the handkerchiefs. But this is indeed how I was first thaught juggling when I was a kid. Thanks for the trip down the memory lane!
I learned myself juggling out of boredom when I was kid. Just tennis balls or similar stuff I found. In early 90s, no info anywhere, just started.
2 balls with 2 hands, 2 balls with 1 hand and finally 3 with 2 hands. Didnt push it further, we had too low ceiling for bigger throws that 4 balls would require, and juggling 2 balls in each hand was... tricky to keep up for longer.
Consistency of the toss is exactly how I could keep up, if 1 went off I lost it usually within few throws. Unless I did it on purpose. Recently showed it to my kids, obviously rusty but still had the moves.
Damn, I had so much free time as a kid its surreal now.
I don't recommend tennis balls for a beginner: they bounce everywhere, and you'll spend most of your time chasing the balls rather than juggling. Cheap juggling balls are around 10$.
Learning to juggle way back lasts century, I learned to juggle using lacrosse balls. Very bouncy and and a little on the heavy side. Standing over a bed helps if you are using bouncy things (they still can cause havoc in a bedroom when they bounce off each other though).
One of the IJA (International Jugglers' Association) videos that most impressed me is :
IJA Tricks of the Month by Zaila Avant-garde | Juggling Basketballs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH2E1m8Fseg). Not only does she manage the juggling but her parents let her do it indoors with all sorts of stuff around.
I actually learned contact juggling with a lacrosse ball, since its uniform color and texture make it hard to see the rotation of the ball. That way, you get the similar visual effect to a more expensive acrylic, but without the risk of chipping if you drop it while you’re still learning.
This. Something like a hacky sack also works very well. They don’t roll away from you, and they won’t drive your neighbors nuts especially if someone lives below you when they hit the ground.
The ones I have are pretty old, and I got them from a local store that doesn’t exist anymore. They’re kind of slightly weighted, for lack of a better term almost like a foxtail toy.
You could probably just use standard juggling scarves and get much of the same effect. Renegade Juggling is probably one of the better places to buy juggling equipment.
I tried and failed to learn to juggle three balls many times, I've just got terrible coordination. But one day I stood over a bed and just threw them in the air and listened to the rhythm of the "thuds" as the missed balls hit the mattress. As soon as I'd got that down it was like a switch clicked and my hands knew "when" to be ready for the catch, rather than trying to follow the balls to catch them. I never managed four, so mileage may vary with this technique, but it was a very surprising lightbulb moment.
I do some light juggling adjacent activity, and I think it's absolutely improved coordination in other ways. When things randomly fall unexpectedly now I feel like my hands snap out and catch them so much more deftly than before. And with a crawling baby in my life now, I'm often catching them as well.
Greatest pride was catching a tumbling beer at a party, and getting called spider-man.
I know mine sure did! As a kid I was totally uncoordinated, always the last one to be picked for any sports teams. But I definitely noticed the difference when I picked up juggling as a young adult.
Four is just two in each hand. Learning to do that one hand at a time is a nice addition to a three ball cascade. You hold the third in your other hand, and it's a good source of jokes.
You can do four-out-of-five, which is a five ball cascade with a missing beat (just as how you learned two-out-of-three while learning initially). Unfortunately it's very hard and still doesn't impress people.
I taught myself in junior high to juggle three balls with two hands and two balls with one hand. It's not a huge accomplishment but what amazes me is that I can go years without trying it and when an opportunity comes up I can just do it again, within just a couple of tries. Those neuronal connections just never go away.
I taught myself to juggle in a weird way. I had 3 lightweight plastic cubes, laid down on the bed, and began tossing them directly over my head (my hands on either side of my head). I think it gave me a good sense of where each cube was at all times.Once I got good at juggling supine, I just transitioned to sitting up straight.
Same! Every so often I remember that I can juggle, and spend a minute or two juggling, and feel better for it. And then I forget for weeks or months.
(I taught myself while procrastinating from exam revision, many years ago. I started with a large bag of oranges. Just enough of an incentive not to drop them, no real harm when they did hit the floor.)
I can, but I wouldn't describe having two two-ball capable hands as being half-way there. If forced to put a number on it, something like 20% is the best I could do.
Sure! Juggle two in dominant hand. Then two in weak hand. Then two plus one both ways round, then 4. That's how I used to teach people anyway. Balls go up on the inside and down on the outside. For most people two really well in non dominant hand is the hard part.
I came in and out of 'actively juggling' through time, but I was at least 20 years with strong two in my off hand before four really started to do four for any real number of throws.
The perpetual issue was that the loops move in and out of sync, so the rhythm of responsibilities ends up with beat patterns that confuse my focus.
I always felt that 4 wasn't a huge step up from 3 for most people, especially given the right tips. If you learn 3 in a day or two then 4 is a week or two. That kind of thing.
A good trick to practice 4 is to throw 4 throws in the middle of 3. So you juggle 3 balls then throw one to the same hand (the 4 throws) while holding a ball in the other for a beat (the 2 throws). You can put the 42 throws anywhere in the 3 pattern and if you do it as quickly as possible you get 423 which is an interesting pattern. 441 is good too - harder but helps with that sync problem.
The big step comes at 5. It took me nearly a year to master 5 balls with consistent practice. I eventually got reasonably good at 6 balls (juggled in sync, crossing over) but that's where I plateaued as far as numbers go.
There are lots of other things than numbers though. Non jugglers will have no idea how many balls you are juggling so you can impress with 3 balls. My favourite party trick was blindfold juggling. I used to be able to juggle 3 balls for about a minute like that.
Juggling two with the non-dominant hand is so hard. Much harder than juggling three balls. There's something fundamentally different about using your non-dominant hand independently as opposed to in coordination with your dominant hand. I can use my left for many things: juggling, typing, playing guitar etc., but as soon as I try to do it with my right hand behind my back I feel incredibly weak.
It would be so useful to have two right hands. I'm curious whether you think getting over the hump helps with ambidexterity in general.
Something I learnt was when learning new juggling tricks, make sure to practice them both ways round. For example if you are learning to shower 3 (round in a circle juggling) make sure you practice the high throws with your right and left hands. It gets easier the more you do it so I guess that it does help with ambidexterity.
I may try that. I can do two balls in either hand already. I just never tried doing it in both hands at once.
Strangely even though I'm right-handed I feel more comfortable juggling two in my left hand. I also bat and golf left-handed so sometimes I wonder if my parents forced right-handedness was on me.
Many years ago I saw Penn & Teller and Penn Jillette talked about how juggling flaming sticks or knives isn't that impressive because they are perfectly balanced for juggling.
Instead, he took three large whiskey bottles of different shapes and sizes. On stage, he broke the bottom of each bottle. They came out all sharp, jagged, and uneven. He then proceeded to juggle three of them. I think he got only a few rounds before he was forced to drop them.
In my experience most folks go to clubs in order to do pass juggling with others (or because it’s a nice indoor space with high ceilings), but typically folks are very happy to spare some time to help beginners learn
Juggling has a very special place in my heart. I met my wife through juggling. We were both staying at a youth hostel in Ireland, and the owner introduced us to each other because she'd seen us both juggling, and said we should juggle together. She was way better than me. She juggled with clubs, burning torches and knives, so yeah, life was never the same after that.
Huh. I thought there was going to be something insightful about one ball juggling specifically, but I didn't see it in reading or searching.
I haven't tried just 1 ball, but I find 2 to be a lot harder than 3. (which, I suppose, is why I was expecting something insightful about why it would be difficult to juggle just one ball).
I can only juggle 3, but I prefer clubs. Balls are so boring they are so small and not spectacular. Clubs on the other hand, man they are rotating. Once, twice, treetimes, backwards. I believe that if someone stuck at this basic level of juggling 3 balls, he should try clubs - at least for me it's pure satisfaction watching these rotating in various variants before.
Many years ago one Saturday morning I happened upon a juggling shop. I could already do three balls so I asked if I could try the clubs. After about an hour of failing the shop owner said something like "some people never get it". So of course I bought a set. After 12 hours that day and 12 hours the next I got the hang of it. They are harder to learn than balls but still doable for an unsporty person like me. And, as you say, very satisfying.
I am not the person you're asking, but they were a thing in The Netherlands at least. Not super common, but they did exist. Typically they sold other related things too, like diabolos, flower sticks, etc. This was a while ago, before Amazon, when there were just a lot more different types of shops. I am not sure they still still exist.
You can also pass clubs. In fact, at my local juggling meetup (Castro Valley BART), it really breaks into two groups: passers and numbers. Passers get together and pass. It's quite social. Someone explains a group pattern and they work through it. OTOH, numbers jugglers can juggle 5 or more clubs+balls. They segregate themselves off and really only talk to each other. We're in the same place but numbers only talk to other numbers.
I would agree that the proper next step after getting comfortable with 3 balls is to learn 3 clubs, not 4 balls. It's much easier to go 3 balls -> 3 clubs than 3 balls -> 4 balls. So many fun things to do with clubs, and of course once you learn clubs you have learned torches/knives which never fail to impress.
Learning club juggling was fun. That led to partner club juggling as well as flaming clubs. Got a nice video of me juggling flames and overrotating a club so I catch the flaming end. Whoops.
Clubs do indeed look great. I like juggling with random objects. It's quite hard, especially if different sizes/weights but it looks really cool IMO because it's so unexpected and doesn't need any special equipment. Plus you can do it anywhere.
I thought this post was going to be a metaphor about how most people can barely handle 1 project, while some people need to multiple projects for it to feel natural...
Just today I improved my record to 18 minutes. Btw, I noticed my juggling is completely subconscious, I don't move my hands voluntarily where the ball is, the hands move on its own.
> DO NOT JUST PASS THE SECOND BALL BETWEEN YOUR HANDS. This is a common thing, as people are regularly taught it
People are really regularly taught it? Who's doing that teaching?
I suspect a different cause: cartoons. Especially in older animation, juggling was typically presented in the 'circle' style, which is probably where people tended to pick up the misconception. I guess that animation is a lot easier to produce.
I grew up in the boonies back in the 80's. The only real contact I had with juggling was probably cartoons like described above. I really wanted to learn though and would walk around the woods for hours trying to juggle oak galls in that "circle style" only able to keep it up for a few seconds at a time.
My first day at college, before classes started, I was in the dorms. Everyone was getting to know each other, and I saw someone juggling the right way. It instantly clicked. All the hand-eye practice the 'wrong' way actually helped. That's why I always tell people that the first thing I learned in college was how to juggle.
In my experience they're not taught it, it's instinctive. The easiest way to get a free hand seems to be to hand a ball over to your other hand directly. It makes sense too, it's counterintuitive that it's much easier to throw the ball up and over back.
> Another mistake is completely ignoring the ball and staring into the distance. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've seen it a bunch more with *rats* than anywhere else. In any case, I would recommend you just casually glance up at the ball as it reaches the top of its arc
Is 'rats' a juggling jargon I'm unfamiliar with? Or do rats stare into the distance often?
I derailed after this sentence. I searched for more uses of "rats" in the article, then looked in the HN comments to see if it was a bit of jargon that I was unaware of. I read "Lessons from the art of juggling" years ago, but despite the primer, I couldn't get past the unanswerable question of whether I was, in fact, a "rat".
Thanks for posting this. You reminded me I have three juggling balls collecting dust behind my monitor. I forgot how fun it is! As others have said I'm surprised the muscle memory is still there even after a few years without trying.
In a couple of people I have known, some physical capabilities remained long after their memory was gone.
There was also this woman who wrote about her husband Alzheimer's. He could still play tennis and golf while not being able to do much more basic tasks like picking an outfit for the day. I don't know if it was therapeutic but she said he gave him a lot of joy.
I picked up a copy of the Klutz book back in the 1980s. I think it was their first publication, and it got me started. Their YoYo book was also a fun time.
Several years ago we had a juggling "craze" at my otherwise very stodgy corporate office. We all juggled constantly on every little break and several of us got pretty good at it. By the end a few of us were doing harder 3-ball tricks like mills mess and passing balls back and forth to each other. It was super fun. Honestly while specific tips can help, I think it mainly comes down to persistence and getting ideas from others, youtube, etc. Some ideas will click, some won't. Doing it with friends everyday helps too. It just takes time to get a really consistent throw dialed in, especially under pressure, but once you do 3-ball gets quite easy and then you can focus more on goofing around and trying new things.
I've wanted to code a VR game for juggling but never found time for it.
Feels like it would be super-easy-to-code and probably would be lucrative. Implement "slow down time" so people can practice juggling in slow motion, add some other features like catch radius and bias towards consistent height of throws and you've got a great game!
Tim Kelly's 3 ball juggling is still my favourite of all time. You won't regret watching him. I've literally never seen anyone juggle this well. Always been such an inspiration: https://youtu.be/q37vo62psGA?si=r_Kh4RWl7HTAu4Mq
This takes me back to my teenage juggling glory days. Truly the golden years in hindsight.
I grew up in Silicon Valley in the late 80s/90s and learned to juggle, as many people did back then, from the book "Juggling for the Complete Klutz." As a kid I devoured almost every Klutz Press book.
A product of Stanford people, Klutz had a small brick and mortar store in Palo Alto. It sold all of their books, of course, but also juggling equipment, magic props, and random fun stuff like rubber chickens and fake corpse legs you could hang out the trunk of your car. Absolute paradise for ~12 year old me.
But the best part was that they ran a weekly juggling club out on the back deck area. Just show up and play. I learned a lot from all of the kind folks who turned out for that. My mom would drop me off every week, and I'd run out there excited to show the older guys what I learned that week. I wasn't a prodigy or anything but I was decent. Got to the point where I was juggling 4 clubs and I could hang with the club passers if they kept the pattern tame (and were skilled enough to catch my slop). Of course I also got proficient at other juggling-adjacent stuff like yo-yo, devil sticks, contact juggling... Just pure joy, really a cherished memory.
I was at the shop enough that my friend and I ended up being recruited to model for the 1998 edition of the Klutz Yo Yo book. There are 2 photos of me in there, I think. I was pissed that my friend was more photogenic and they ended up using way more of his photos than mine.
Knives are surprisingly fun to juggle. Due to my pain tolerance (or stupidity) I would throw knives up, catch them by the blade (pinching) or using a soft hands, where I match their falling speed, catch them on a finger tip while it remains vertical. Also, I would find myself spinning a folding blade end over end, and catching by the handle, based upon the rotations (minus one because you flip from the sharp end).
Juggling is something I've done on and off all my life and every time I ever see any writing about it, it doesn't at all capture how juggling fits with me. Every time I read about it, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I know I'm not, but I thought I'd share my views in case it helps someone want to pickup juggling in a different way.
Most writing on juggling talks about moves and repetition. You'll see the same terminology and approaches everwhere, site swap notation, cascades, messes, 1 hand, 2 hand, claws etc.
This can sometimes give the impression that when you're juggling, you're basically doing a move, or repeating a motion, or following a script, like being able to perform the specific move is the skill and achievement itself, but it's really, really not.
I think it's better to think of the balls as instruments. When you're reading and learning about juggling moves like cascades and messes and clawing, you're reading about chords on that instrument. If all you know is how to play individual chords, and the names of the chords and theoretical and technical ways to represent the chords, you're missing the point of knowing how to play an instrument.
Most of the time when I'm juggling, I'm in the same creative and expressive mindset and headspace as I am if I'm soloing on drums. Every move is a different move between a bunch of different moves based on wherever my mood takes me. It feels good and allegedly look impressive too.
I've tried to learn keyboard/piano so, so, so many times and it just doesn't stick with me, I struggle to retain the theory, I can't get the intuition, I never find myself in the zone after years and years of attempts and lessons. Drumming was the opposite though, I felt comfortable on it within months of having my kit with very, very little theoretical background. I consider myself a theoretical person, but juggling - like drumming - seems to be one of those few things for me where the theory makes it worse/harder/less intuitive/less fun for me.
To be fair, I can do 3 balls effortlessly, but I can't do 1 ball like it is in this description, I just have a lot of error correction, enough to do it pretty much indefinitely. But I cannot reliably throw it accurately to the other hand.
A little disappointed that the writer never attempts to address the title of the post, which is either a) why most people can't juggle a single ball, or b) how the author even knows this to be true, aside from some limited anecdata.
My (admittedly limited) juggling experience would indicate something closer to "Anyone can juggle", or that your average person, particularly young people, can learn to juggle one, two, or even three balls with an afternoon of practice, but I suppose that makes for a worse title.
Long, long, (long) ago I used to teach people to juggle at the local Renaissance Fair. I would say I could get almost everyone to flash 3 in less than 30 minutes. Most people walked away having at least 5-6 successful throws. The only people who really couldn't learn are those who don't like to fail and won't even try. Learning to juggle is repeated failure and you have to be willing to persist. Learning 5 clubs (very briefly) took me many years of repeated failure.
Technically this is not incompatible with the title. Just uses “can” in a different sense. The title would be using “can” in the “has the skill already”, while you use “can” in the “able to acquire the skill” sense.
It is not hard to imagine that most people when asked the question “can you juggle?” would answer in the negative. That’s what the article’s title describes. And then if those people, given sufficient motivation can learn to juggle that leads to your sentence. And they both can be true at the same time.
I agree that it would be nice to provide source for the claim though.
I would say no to currently being able to juggle, but that's because I don't consider one ball to count as juggling.
If you specifically asked if I could juggle one ball, I'd say sure. And I just checked, one ball goes fine. And I've never practiced juggling. I'm pretty skeptical about that ability being the minority.
I am not fully certain but juggling is moving objects in a predictable path so as to repeat without dropping.
In my understanding of the OP, juggling 'one' is being able to throw an object consistently to another hand without handing it. This is an intentional throw of the ball from one hand to another without "moving" the other hand to compensate.
Throwing from one hand to another, either directly or in an arc, requires the motorskills to move an object consistently while understanding the speed, trajectory, and then moving the other hand to receive (not catch) it as expected.
There are multiple elements at play with 3 object juggling. One must throw an arc toss to the other hand, while holding an object, then throwing the object in said hand to free the hand to catch. In reality you are holding two objects with one in motion - until you get the double arc which is now technically juggling.
Three bodies in motion, two hands that are each making circular or figure eight motions, while maintaining a consistent arc and speed (XY (no Z) + T = arc) where the mind either tracks or forgets allowing the predictable movements work themselves into only tracking one object at a time - by setting it's path and then shifting focus or attention to the next.
>>TLDR: A complete guide to juggling, from zero to siteswap notation, by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
>>by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
I’m not sure if I’d laugh or be amazed at someone juggling at a nightclub. I guess it really depends on how well received the act is by their target audience (aka can a man pick up women via juggling?).
I really enjoyed learning to juggle. My mum randomly brought a juggling book back from a second hand shop. It probably sat on a shelf for a year until one day my brother and I picked it up for some reason. It also goes to show how important it is to have access to lots of books. You never know when one might catch your interest.
Profoundly disagree with the author on skipping 6. It helped so much with my 7.
I do agree on clubs though. They were as big of a revelation as siteswap when I learned them and I'd highly recommend trying.
Most juggling clubs(accumulations of people, not object) have loaner clubs and nice people willing to share theirs as well as teach.
I sure can't. After few throws I'll drop it. My body just gets bored of doing the same exact thing even just a handful of times. Same problem with exercise. Even zero balls sounds unbearable for more than 15 seconds.
I went to school with a math genius who participated in international math Olympiads. Curiously he had no problem juggling multiple balls - and nobody taught him.
Reading this thread makes me wonder if I'm the only one who really tried to learn to juggle, only to fail even after a whole month of brute-forcing it, while my partner at the time, who started at my suggestion, managed it after 30 minutes! That was 15 years ago...
Just juggling with balls in the air gets boring very quickly, and the added numbers don't make it much different. Learning statics and flows from contact juggling, but performing them with standard juggling balls is so much more fun. And then you discover statics with hoops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6UuPsw2i4
Don't be fatuous with me boy. It's clear that that criterion could justify any number of things that are always immediately flagged. In fact, it could justify literally anything being posted here.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
You think there's nothing about "politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities" that "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" that isn't "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon"?
This post is about a sport (juggling) and doesn't cover "new phenomena". So what the hell are we doing here? Any more rule nerd ass hall monitors want to drop another irrelevant rule in here?
Many of you might know of Noisebridge, a beloved hackerspace in San Francisco. They had (have?) a juggling workshop every saturday called "Juggling with Judy", taught by Judy Pinelli, founder of the famed Pickle Family Circus (and a huge influence on Cirque Du Soleil).
I had no idea how famous or influential she was. She first taught us how to make our own juggling balls: snip the ends of a balloon, fill with enough rice to feel comfortable in the hand, then wrap that with another balloon to seal the rice in, then snip the ends of the second balloon.
Then she went through the usual sequence: throw a ball, er, balloon, from one hand to the next, then practice with two and so on. By the end of that 2 hour session, we had got the essentials.
The remarkable thing about this workshop was that Judy was at an advanced stage of multiple sclerosis at that point. She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
After the 2 hour workshop, she'd go to Golden Gate park to teach juggling. All for free. I feel extraordinarily privileged. She's been my polestar in life.
> She was pretty much completely immobile from the neck down, and couldn't even see our hands properly from her wheelchair. She could only see the arc of the ball, but that was sufficient information for her to tell us how we could improve. "Pull your elbow in". "Focus on the left hand, the right will follow".
I've both been a coach (paintball/martial arts) and been coached (golf) and it really is wild how good your brain can become at seeing the outcome or just a piece of the process and then working backwards to a root cause.
I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you don't actually see the collision. You see the after effects and then figure out what happened by going backwards to what must have occurred."
>> I sometimes make the analogy "in particle physics, you don't actually see the collision. You see the after effects and then figure out what happened by going backwards to what must have occurred."
I keep coming back to that. Nobody has ever directly seen direct the force carrying particles, only their effects (indirect evidence). The models make excellent predictions, but I still feel like they're "wrong" in some sense.
This is the only fact we know for certain in physics; we know for sure that our existing models are incorrect. But they sure are great at lots of stuff and correctly predict lots of phenomenon so until someone can come up with a better model they're likely to continue to be used widely!
Great story, thanks for sharing. Just a minor correction: it's Judy Finelli, not Pinelli.
Noisebridge! I went there as a tourist! I visited SF (I'm from Amsterdam), saw Noisebridge and felt right at home :)
This is one of the nice things about the juggling community: it's one of the open, sharing communities where people are willing to freely share and teach. It's no cost/low cost entry. The juggling community has been a really important part of my life, so I see it as giving back to teach others.
Noisebridge is awesome. This illustrates beautifully what humans can be capable of.
Great story about juggling, thanks.
what means "snip the ends of a balloon"? when I think of balloons they are pretty large spheres for juggling
If a balloon is made of a thin neck and a round body, you're chopping the neck off near the bottom of the neck. You're then left with a round rubber pouch for the contents (rice). Use two balloons in opposite directions so the closed end of the outer layer covers the opening of the inner layer.
Great for juggling balls - nice weight and very grippy.
I think the use of the word "ends" rather than "end" makes it sound like you're making 2 snips on each balloon.
yeah that confused me too
But this means it's a tiny balloon? Almost hand sized already?
Balloons are pretty small before you inflate them, and you're not inflating them, just stuffing them with rice.
I feel stupid, thank you got explaining!
Indeed. Do not blow up the balloon. Just use it as a rubber pouch. If anything is still unclear, describe as detailed as you can the difficulty you're visualizing.
The technique I've used to fill a balloon with rice:
- Take a small plastic drinks bottle.
- Cut the bottom half off to make it like a funnel.
- Remove the lid, and stretch a balloon over the neck.
- Invert the half bottle so the balloon over the bottle-neck is hanging underneath.
- When you tip some rice into the funnel, only a few grains will fall into the uninflated balloon.
- Now put your mouth/cheeks against the open end of the bottle/funnel and blow. This will partially inflate the balloon, and all the rice will fall in. Done!
Longtime juggler here.
Outside of more complicated tricks like the claw and other specialized patterns, the most common juggling patterns (such as the cascade [1]) don’t rely as much on pure handeye coordination as they do on maintaining a consistent, even toss. The key is throwing each ball so it rises and falls in a predictable arc, so it lands approximately in the same spot where your other hand is waiting to catch it.
When I teach complete beginners, I actually start with a set of special handkerchiefs. They fall more slowly than balls, which gives learners more time to react and makes it much easier to see and follow the path of each object through the air.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_(juggling)
My favourite technique is after the initial two ball crosses was for me to stand in for their left (or non dominant) hand.
You stand slightly behind your pupil and get them to put their left hand behind their back and you put your left hand about where theirs should be. You give them one ball in their right hand and then you start the pattern with two balls.
Most people are amazed to find themselves juggling at this point. Yes, you are correcting their mistakes but it gives a real feeling of juggling for them. Most people manage 10 catches quite easily at this point.
Once they have the hang of that swap sides. This one is harder, don't do it too long before setting them off on 3 and they can practice themselves from here on.
I have taught 100s of people to juggle like that :-)
Some of us had a juggling party at a lake. All amateurs, i.e. few could manage much with clubs. An international juggling award winner (don't remember more than that) found out, joined us, and had a number of us partner juggling flaming torches pretty quickly, and kept pushing us into more and more techniques. The quality of the coach matters!
That's a neat approach! It's not really the same, but it kind of reminds me of an interview they did with Michael Moschen (the guy who performed the contact juggling scene in Jim Henson’s movie Labyrinth). He talked about how difficult it was because he had to thread his arms underneath David Bowie’s, so he couldn’t actually see the acrylic ball while he was doing the contact juggling.
Well worth 6 minutes of anyone's time watching him do The Triangle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjHoedoSUXY
Seconded! Just watched it, that was great. :)
A long time ago (pre-internet) I heard a normal person can learn to juggle in 1 day. It took me 2 days, but I learned to juggle 3 balls. But soon I realized what you said, the need for a consistent toss. Not sure of the reason, but I always make some errors with physical movements, they are never perfect. Even with typing, no matter how much I exercise, I cannot get bellow ~3% errors. Wondering if this is some kind of genetic effect, and how many ppl have similar issues.
I haven’t tried juggling for decades but I did manage to teach myself basic three-ball juggling when I was at university (any excuse to avoid revising!)
I think it took me a couple of weeks though. I’m a bit malcoordinated for that sort of thing in general. I think you’re right that there’s some sort of natural aptitude that not everybody has. Fortunately basic juggling is just about easy enough that almost any idiot can do it.
If you are on the spectrum at all, you have a high-to-very-high chance of being more clumsy than average due to differences in sensory processing.
I, too, make unpreventable physical errors all the friggin time.
For instance, I attempted to upvote your comment but initially downvoted it. Sigh.
This made me laugh. The number of times I’ve Admiral Ackbar fat-fingered the flag button when I just wanted to hide a post on HN is almost too many to count at this point.
It's crazy how much you don't actually need to look at your hands. I learned juggling a long time ago, and I remember discovering this. It feels like you become good at predicting from the top of the arc where you need to place your hand so that it intersects with the arc. I was surprised to see that as I got better, I also started catching the balls where the throw was a little off and I had to extend my arm to catch it, but still without actually looking at my hands. And at some point it becomes automatic and fast.
There was this one time when I was grocery shopping (I had been practicing a lot at that point), and someone accidentally pushed a jar off a shelf, and I caught it without looking or even thinking. I felt a little bit like a super hero with super reflexes :-)
Definitely true! A good way to practice and make sure you’re working on throw consistency rather than pure reflexes is to juggle while watching a TV show. It’s even better if it’s something like subbed anime, so you have to read the subtitles while you juggle.
The way I taught myself to juggle was something I don't see very often in guides, but I think works quite well — I taught myself to juggle two balls in one hand, until I could do it with both hands, and then three ball juggling with two hands was just doing the exact same thing, but crossing.
Yeah I have wondered about that as a method. You can even just go two balls in one hand, then switch to the other side and back, and that's almost the 3 ball pattern.
I’m very amazed by this site linked in the Wikipedia: https://libraryofjuggling.com/Tricks/3balltricks/Cascade.htm...
Supposedly from 2014, but looks a fair bit older.
When I learned to juggle (which I've forgotten), it was with beanbags, because they don't bounce away when you drop them.
I taught myself next to a bed so I didn't have to bend over to pick them up.
But where's the fun in that? Chasing the balls is half the challenge!
Seriously, knowing the balls are going to roll away if you drop them gives you some incentive to do it right. I think I used tennis balls early on.
My dad bought me a kit of beanbags that looked like globes when I was 9 or 10.
My incentive to do it right was "I want to juggle." I'm glad I didn't have to chase them around, what a waste of time.
Apples was my choice of juggling fruit! Good weight/size ratio and also the reward at the end of my training session :).
It's been a while since I taught anyone to juggle, but I generally disrecommended scarf juggling. It's fine if you want some quick validation, but the hand movements are so different from balls/bags that I don't think the skills are transferable.
I prefer the method described in the original post. Just start with one ball and get that right, then two, then three. It's a bit like the Karate Kid, though. Students don't find it as satisfying because they want to jump ahead before they've got the movement down.
The scarves I use, as I mentioned in another thread, are actually weighted. They fall more like a traditional ball, just significantly slower. I’ve found that this works pretty well for teaching, but of course everyone learns differently.
Every time I got better at dancing I got better at juggling too. In my folk psychology, juggling is a partially-attached extension of your hands, so it’s just weird dancing.
If you think of it like 3 jobs you have to do simultaneously everything falls apart. Internalizing the three balls as a single process that you are participating in makes it a lot more manageable.
Of course the only way to get there is some 10s of hours of practice
Yeah I could see that. I think that because dance is so heavily reliant on proprioceptive abilities, it makes sense that there would be some overlap with juggling.
I wonder if juggling positive buoyancy balloons upside down would develop skills transferable to right side up. You can make those as slow as you want. When jugglers juggle balls against the floor I guess they don't start from scratch.
Lol. I’ve juggled non-buoyant, air filled balloons but because of their elasticity they don’t exactly settle into your hand when they land.
In my juggling routine, one of the things I do is transition to lying on my back face up while continuing to juggle. I’m throwing the balls straight up above my head while lying perfectly flat, which feels pretty weird. So I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to be physically upside down while juggling.
Yeah I never really mastered a consistent throw - it's just not how my brain works. I got as a pretty shakey 4 ball shower and that was it.
Oh waw, I had totally forgotten about the handkerchiefs. But this is indeed how I was first thaught juggling when I was a kid. Thanks for the trip down the memory lane!
I learned myself juggling out of boredom when I was kid. Just tennis balls or similar stuff I found. In early 90s, no info anywhere, just started.
2 balls with 2 hands, 2 balls with 1 hand and finally 3 with 2 hands. Didnt push it further, we had too low ceiling for bigger throws that 4 balls would require, and juggling 2 balls in each hand was... tricky to keep up for longer.
Consistency of the toss is exactly how I could keep up, if 1 went off I lost it usually within few throws. Unless I did it on purpose. Recently showed it to my kids, obviously rusty but still had the moves.
Damn, I had so much free time as a kid its surreal now.
Any recommendations for youtube lessons?
I love Taylor Tries
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGV8mtb7t-4PuziHauottOfqp...
Great teaching style and a fantastic juggler
https://archive.org/details/Juggling-Step-By-Step-1987
Practice against a wall with tennis balls, it’ll take a day.
I don't recommend tennis balls for a beginner: they bounce everywhere, and you'll spend most of your time chasing the balls rather than juggling. Cheap juggling balls are around 10$.
Learning to juggle way back lasts century, I learned to juggle using lacrosse balls. Very bouncy and and a little on the heavy side. Standing over a bed helps if you are using bouncy things (they still can cause havoc in a bedroom when they bounce off each other though).
One of the IJA (International Jugglers' Association) videos that most impressed me is : IJA Tricks of the Month by Zaila Avant-garde | Juggling Basketballs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH2E1m8Fseg). Not only does she manage the juggling but her parents let her do it indoors with all sorts of stuff around.
I actually learned contact juggling with a lacrosse ball, since its uniform color and texture make it hard to see the rotation of the ball. That way, you get the similar visual effect to a more expensive acrylic, but without the risk of chipping if you drop it while you’re still learning.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing!
If you do use tennis balls, stand in front of your couch so they land there and don't roll away.
This. Something like a hacky sack also works very well. They don’t roll away from you, and they won’t drive your neighbors nuts especially if someone lives below you when they hit the ground.
hacky sack the planet!
Part of the motivation is to make sure you catch them and they don’t bounce away. Negative externalities aren’t always a bad thing.
could you please link the beginner handkerchiefs?
The ones I have are pretty old, and I got them from a local store that doesn’t exist anymore. They’re kind of slightly weighted, for lack of a better term almost like a foxtail toy.
You could probably just use standard juggling scarves and get much of the same effect. Renegade Juggling is probably one of the better places to buy juggling equipment.
https://renegadejuggling.com/products/juggling-scarf-23-inch...
I learned using plastic bags. Probably not as uniform in their motion as handkerchiefs, but worked to get the pattern down before moving to balls.
I tried and failed to learn to juggle three balls many times, I've just got terrible coordination. But one day I stood over a bed and just threw them in the air and listened to the rhythm of the "thuds" as the missed balls hit the mattress. As soon as I'd got that down it was like a switch clicked and my hands knew "when" to be ready for the catch, rather than trying to follow the balls to catch them. I never managed four, so mileage may vary with this technique, but it was a very surprising lightbulb moment.
I had a friend who had absolutely terrible coordination.
I would bet against him being able to learn three balls.
But he was very dedicated. Long story short. After many years he could comfortably juggle 6 (six!) balls.
It looked wobbly, he still looked like a person without coordination, but the balls somehow stayed in the air.
I wonder if his coordination in other areas has improved as a side effect?
I do some light juggling adjacent activity, and I think it's absolutely improved coordination in other ways. When things randomly fall unexpectedly now I feel like my hands snap out and catch them so much more deftly than before. And with a crawling baby in my life now, I'm often catching them as well.
Greatest pride was catching a tumbling beer at a party, and getting called spider-man.
I know mine sure did! As a kid I was totally uncoordinated, always the last one to be picked for any sports teams. But I definitely noticed the difference when I picked up juggling as a young adult.
Four is just two in each hand. Learning to do that one hand at a time is a nice addition to a three ball cascade. You hold the third in your other hand, and it's a good source of jokes.
You can do four-out-of-five, which is a five ball cascade with a missing beat (just as how you learned two-out-of-three while learning initially). Unfortunately it's very hard and still doesn't impress people.
I taught myself in junior high to juggle three balls with two hands and two balls with one hand. It's not a huge accomplishment but what amazes me is that I can go years without trying it and when an opportunity comes up I can just do it again, within just a couple of tries. Those neuronal connections just never go away.
I taught myself to juggle in a weird way. I had 3 lightweight plastic cubes, laid down on the bed, and began tossing them directly over my head (my hands on either side of my head). I think it gave me a good sense of where each cube was at all times.Once I got good at juggling supine, I just transitioned to sitting up straight.
Same! Every so often I remember that I can juggle, and spend a minute or two juggling, and feel better for it. And then I forget for weeks or months.
(I taught myself while procrastinating from exam revision, many years ago. I started with a large bag of oranges. Just enough of an incentive not to drop them, no real harm when they did hit the floor.)
Learn to juggle two balls with the other hand and you are half way to 4 (which is two in each hand out of sync)
Out of curiosity - can you juggle four balls?
I can, but I wouldn't describe having two two-ball capable hands as being half-way there. If forced to put a number on it, something like 20% is the best I could do.
Sure! Juggle two in dominant hand. Then two in weak hand. Then two plus one both ways round, then 4. That's how I used to teach people anyway. Balls go up on the inside and down on the outside. For most people two really well in non dominant hand is the hard part.
When you taught, what was a typical uptake like?
I came in and out of 'actively juggling' through time, but I was at least 20 years with strong two in my off hand before four really started to do four for any real number of throws.
The perpetual issue was that the loops move in and out of sync, so the rhythm of responsibilities ends up with beat patterns that confuse my focus.
I always felt that 4 wasn't a huge step up from 3 for most people, especially given the right tips. If you learn 3 in a day or two then 4 is a week or two. That kind of thing.
A good trick to practice 4 is to throw 4 throws in the middle of 3. So you juggle 3 balls then throw one to the same hand (the 4 throws) while holding a ball in the other for a beat (the 2 throws). You can put the 42 throws anywhere in the 3 pattern and if you do it as quickly as possible you get 423 which is an interesting pattern. 441 is good too - harder but helps with that sync problem.
The big step comes at 5. It took me nearly a year to master 5 balls with consistent practice. I eventually got reasonably good at 6 balls (juggled in sync, crossing over) but that's where I plateaued as far as numbers go.
There are lots of other things than numbers though. Non jugglers will have no idea how many balls you are juggling so you can impress with 3 balls. My favourite party trick was blindfold juggling. I used to be able to juggle 3 balls for about a minute like that.
Juggling two with the non-dominant hand is so hard. Much harder than juggling three balls. There's something fundamentally different about using your non-dominant hand independently as opposed to in coordination with your dominant hand. I can use my left for many things: juggling, typing, playing guitar etc., but as soon as I try to do it with my right hand behind my back I feel incredibly weak.
It would be so useful to have two right hands. I'm curious whether you think getting over the hump helps with ambidexterity in general.
Something I learnt was when learning new juggling tricks, make sure to practice them both ways round. For example if you are learning to shower 3 (round in a circle juggling) make sure you practice the high throws with your right and left hands. It gets easier the more you do it so I guess that it does help with ambidexterity.
I can juggle 4 balls for a little while, but two in my non-dominante hand? That's so unnatural I don't think I've even bothered trying.
I may try that. I can do two balls in either hand already. I just never tried doing it in both hands at once.
Strangely even though I'm right-handed I feel more comfortable juggling two in my left hand. I also bat and golf left-handed so sometimes I wonder if my parents forced right-handedness was on me.
Many years ago I saw Penn & Teller and Penn Jillette talked about how juggling flaming sticks or knives isn't that impressive because they are perfectly balanced for juggling.
Instead, he took three large whiskey bottles of different shapes and sizes. On stage, he broke the bottom of each bottle. They came out all sharp, jagged, and uneven. He then proceeded to juggle three of them. I think he got only a few rounds before he was forced to drop them.
I don't think he does that anymore.
For those who want to find other jugglers to practice with, there are lots of juggling clubs all over: https://dev.juggle.org/events/clubs.php
In my experience most folks go to clubs in order to do pass juggling with others (or because it’s a nice indoor space with high ceilings), but typically folks are very happy to spare some time to help beginners learn
Juggling has a very special place in my heart. I met my wife through juggling. We were both staying at a youth hostel in Ireland, and the owner introduced us to each other because she'd seen us both juggling, and said we should juggle together. She was way better than me. She juggled with clubs, burning torches and knives, so yeah, life was never the same after that.
Huh. I thought there was going to be something insightful about one ball juggling specifically, but I didn't see it in reading or searching.
I haven't tried just 1 ball, but I find 2 to be a lot harder than 3. (which, I suppose, is why I was expecting something insightful about why it would be difficult to juggle just one ball).
I can only juggle 3, but I prefer clubs. Balls are so boring they are so small and not spectacular. Clubs on the other hand, man they are rotating. Once, twice, treetimes, backwards. I believe that if someone stuck at this basic level of juggling 3 balls, he should try clubs - at least for me it's pure satisfaction watching these rotating in various variants before.
Many years ago one Saturday morning I happened upon a juggling shop. I could already do three balls so I asked if I could try the clubs. After about an hour of failing the shop owner said something like "some people never get it". So of course I bought a set. After 12 hours that day and 12 hours the next I got the hang of it. They are harder to learn than balls but still doable for an unsporty person like me. And, as you say, very satisfying.
That shop owner was a good salesman.
Where is juggling shop a thing?
It was in the UK in 1993, about the time the web was starting to take off. As the other commenter says, there was a much wider variety of shops then.
I am not the person you're asking, but they were a thing in The Netherlands at least. Not super common, but they did exist. Typically they sold other related things too, like diabolos, flower sticks, etc. This was a while ago, before Amazon, when there were just a lot more different types of shops. I am not sure they still still exist.
You can also pass clubs. In fact, at my local juggling meetup (Castro Valley BART), it really breaks into two groups: passers and numbers. Passers get together and pass. It's quite social. Someone explains a group pattern and they work through it. OTOH, numbers jugglers can juggle 5 or more clubs+balls. They segregate themselves off and really only talk to each other. We're in the same place but numbers only talk to other numbers.
I would agree that the proper next step after getting comfortable with 3 balls is to learn 3 clubs, not 4 balls. It's much easier to go 3 balls -> 3 clubs than 3 balls -> 4 balls. So many fun things to do with clubs, and of course once you learn clubs you have learned torches/knives which never fail to impress.
Learning club juggling was fun. That led to partner club juggling as well as flaming clubs. Got a nice video of me juggling flames and overrotating a club so I catch the flaming end. Whoops.
Clubs do indeed look great. I like juggling with random objects. It's quite hard, especially if different sizes/weights but it looks really cool IMO because it's so unexpected and doesn't need any special equipment. Plus you can do it anywhere.
it's a cool article but would immensely help from gifs or videos to go along with the explanation
I thought this post was going to be a metaphor about how most people can barely handle 1 project, while some people need to multiple projects for it to feel natural...
I really hoped it wouldn't. Too played out
> When I'm bored, I just whip out my balls and start having a play. And people watch, and sometimes join in.
Nice.
(I'm sure the author did this intentionally)
definitely did. lots of schweddy balls style humor
My high school AP calculus teacher required everyone in the class to learn to juggle (3 balls) by the end of year to pass the class.
Seemed annoying then.
Seems radical now.
Lol, he's probably not technically allowed to set that as a requirement in most places I would guess. Funny side quest to offer though.
The fun thing about learning to juggle is that no one can teach you how to juggle, but they can teach you how to teach yourself how to juggle.
Just today I improved my record to 18 minutes. Btw, I noticed my juggling is completely subconscious, I don't move my hands voluntarily where the ball is, the hands move on its own.
> DO NOT JUST PASS THE SECOND BALL BETWEEN YOUR HANDS. This is a common thing, as people are regularly taught it
People are really regularly taught it? Who's doing that teaching?
I suspect a different cause: cartoons. Especially in older animation, juggling was typically presented in the 'circle' style, which is probably where people tended to pick up the misconception. I guess that animation is a lot easier to produce.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAPkX11Bfu8
I grew up in the boonies back in the 80's. The only real contact I had with juggling was probably cartoons like described above. I really wanted to learn though and would walk around the woods for hours trying to juggle oak galls in that "circle style" only able to keep it up for a few seconds at a time.
My first day at college, before classes started, I was in the dorms. Everyone was getting to know each other, and I saw someone juggling the right way. It instantly clicked. All the hand-eye practice the 'wrong' way actually helped. That's why I always tell people that the first thing I learned in college was how to juggle.
In my experience they're not taught it, it's instinctive. The easiest way to get a free hand seems to be to hand a ball over to your other hand directly. It makes sense too, it's counterintuitive that it's much easier to throw the ball up and over back.
casual 3 ball juggler who usually juggles fruit bc its fun to have a little pressure. might make a mess or ruin perfectly good food. my question:
sometimes when im really grooving ill have a ton of backspin. like a finger roll in basketball. is that bad technique or do pros do that too?
> Another mistake is completely ignoring the ball and staring into the distance. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've seen it a bunch more with *rats* than anywhere else. In any case, I would recommend you just casually glance up at the ball as it reaches the top of its arc
Is 'rats' a juggling jargon I'm unfamiliar with? Or do rats stare into the distance often?
Rationalists. It's lesswrong slang.
So much for juggling rats
I derailed after this sentence. I searched for more uses of "rats" in the article, then looked in the HN comments to see if it was a bit of jargon that I was unaware of. I read "Lessons from the art of juggling" years ago, but despite the primer, I couldn't get past the unanswerable question of whether I was, in fact, a "rat".
TFA is posted in/for a community where "rats" is slang for the community members.
Thanks for posting this. You reminded me I have three juggling balls collecting dust behind my monitor. I forgot how fun it is! As others have said I'm surprised the muscle memory is still there even after a few years without trying.
I wonder if I got Alzheimer's so bad that I couldn't remember my kids names, would I still be able to juggle? And would it be therapeutic in any way?
In a couple of people I have known, some physical capabilities remained long after their memory was gone. There was also this woman who wrote about her husband Alzheimer's. He could still play tennis and golf while not being able to do much more basic tasks like picking an outfit for the day. I don't know if it was therapeutic but she said he gave him a lot of joy.
I picked up a copy of the Klutz book back in the 1980s. I think it was their first publication, and it got me started. Their YoYo book was also a fun time.
I had both of these, and learned to juggle from Klutz
I recently bought a new copy for my son, but it hasn’t clicked for him yet
Several years ago we had a juggling "craze" at my otherwise very stodgy corporate office. We all juggled constantly on every little break and several of us got pretty good at it. By the end a few of us were doing harder 3-ball tricks like mills mess and passing balls back and forth to each other. It was super fun. Honestly while specific tips can help, I think it mainly comes down to persistence and getting ideas from others, youtube, etc. Some ideas will click, some won't. Doing it with friends everyday helps too. It just takes time to get a really consistent throw dialed in, especially under pressure, but once you do 3-ball gets quite easy and then you can focus more on goofing around and trying new things.
I've wanted to code a VR game for juggling but never found time for it.
Feels like it would be super-easy-to-code and probably would be lucrative. Implement "slow down time" so people can practice juggling in slow motion, add some other features like catch radius and bias towards consistent height of throws and you've got a great game!
I made a 2d game like this once for, of all things, Palm Pilot. You could tap for the apex of each ball throw.
I'm currently learning the fountain pattern and it's cool to know that it should only take about a month. After that though...
Didn't expect this to actually be about juggling, but I'm not complaining
Tim Kelly's 3 ball juggling is still my favourite of all time. You won't regret watching him. I've literally never seen anyone juggle this well. Always been such an inspiration: https://youtu.be/q37vo62psGA?si=r_Kh4RWl7HTAu4Mq
Is it time to get good at darts yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eotWyZv5c
This takes me back to my teenage juggling glory days. Truly the golden years in hindsight.
I grew up in Silicon Valley in the late 80s/90s and learned to juggle, as many people did back then, from the book "Juggling for the Complete Klutz." As a kid I devoured almost every Klutz Press book.
A product of Stanford people, Klutz had a small brick and mortar store in Palo Alto. It sold all of their books, of course, but also juggling equipment, magic props, and random fun stuff like rubber chickens and fake corpse legs you could hang out the trunk of your car. Absolute paradise for ~12 year old me.
But the best part was that they ran a weekly juggling club out on the back deck area. Just show up and play. I learned a lot from all of the kind folks who turned out for that. My mom would drop me off every week, and I'd run out there excited to show the older guys what I learned that week. I wasn't a prodigy or anything but I was decent. Got to the point where I was juggling 4 clubs and I could hang with the club passers if they kept the pattern tame (and were skilled enough to catch my slop). Of course I also got proficient at other juggling-adjacent stuff like yo-yo, devil sticks, contact juggling... Just pure joy, really a cherished memory.
I was at the shop enough that my friend and I ended up being recruited to model for the 1998 edition of the Klutz Yo Yo book. There are 2 photos of me in there, I think. I was pissed that my friend was more photogenic and they ended up using way more of his photos than mine.
I learnt to juggle with the help of this book: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/777103.The_Complete_J..., all sorts of tips and tricks in there
Worst thing about juggling is that you get a very good instinct to catch falling stuff, even if it's sharp and pointy.
"A falling knife has no handle."
Knives are surprisingly fun to juggle. Due to my pain tolerance (or stupidity) I would throw knives up, catch them by the blade (pinching) or using a soft hands, where I match their falling speed, catch them on a finger tip while it remains vertical. Also, I would find myself spinning a folding blade end over end, and catching by the handle, based upon the rotations (minus one because you flip from the sharp end).
The first HN submission ever that got me to put down my device and go outside, and probably going to get me hooked.
six balls from zero coordination is just aimbot energy
Juggling is something I've done on and off all my life and every time I ever see any writing about it, it doesn't at all capture how juggling fits with me. Every time I read about it, I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I know I'm not, but I thought I'd share my views in case it helps someone want to pickup juggling in a different way.
Most writing on juggling talks about moves and repetition. You'll see the same terminology and approaches everwhere, site swap notation, cascades, messes, 1 hand, 2 hand, claws etc.
This can sometimes give the impression that when you're juggling, you're basically doing a move, or repeating a motion, or following a script, like being able to perform the specific move is the skill and achievement itself, but it's really, really not.
I think it's better to think of the balls as instruments. When you're reading and learning about juggling moves like cascades and messes and clawing, you're reading about chords on that instrument. If all you know is how to play individual chords, and the names of the chords and theoretical and technical ways to represent the chords, you're missing the point of knowing how to play an instrument.
Most of the time when I'm juggling, I'm in the same creative and expressive mindset and headspace as I am if I'm soloing on drums. Every move is a different move between a bunch of different moves based on wherever my mood takes me. It feels good and allegedly look impressive too.
I've tried to learn keyboard/piano so, so, so many times and it just doesn't stick with me, I struggle to retain the theory, I can't get the intuition, I never find myself in the zone after years and years of attempts and lessons. Drumming was the opposite though, I felt comfortable on it within months of having my kit with very, very little theoretical background. I consider myself a theoretical person, but juggling - like drumming - seems to be one of those few things for me where the theory makes it worse/harder/less intuitive/less fun for me.
To be fair, I can do 3 balls effortlessly, but I can't do 1 ball like it is in this description, I just have a lot of error correction, enough to do it pretty much indefinitely. But I cannot reliably throw it accurately to the other hand.
Our software stack is the opposite of that.
A little disappointed that the writer never attempts to address the title of the post, which is either a) why most people can't juggle a single ball, or b) how the author even knows this to be true, aside from some limited anecdata.
My (admittedly limited) juggling experience would indicate something closer to "Anyone can juggle", or that your average person, particularly young people, can learn to juggle one, two, or even three balls with an afternoon of practice, but I suppose that makes for a worse title.
Long, long, (long) ago I used to teach people to juggle at the local Renaissance Fair. I would say I could get almost everyone to flash 3 in less than 30 minutes. Most people walked away having at least 5-6 successful throws. The only people who really couldn't learn are those who don't like to fail and won't even try. Learning to juggle is repeated failure and you have to be willing to persist. Learning 5 clubs (very briefly) took me many years of repeated failure.
> "Anyone can juggle"
Technically this is not incompatible with the title. Just uses “can” in a different sense. The title would be using “can” in the “has the skill already”, while you use “can” in the “able to acquire the skill” sense.
It is not hard to imagine that most people when asked the question “can you juggle?” would answer in the negative. That’s what the article’s title describes. And then if those people, given sufficient motivation can learn to juggle that leads to your sentence. And they both can be true at the same time.
I agree that it would be nice to provide source for the claim though.
I would say no to currently being able to juggle, but that's because I don't consider one ball to count as juggling.
If you specifically asked if I could juggle one ball, I'd say sure. And I just checked, one ball goes fine. And I've never practiced juggling. I'm pretty skeptical about that ability being the minority.
So I also want more explanation of the title.
I am not fully certain but juggling is moving objects in a predictable path so as to repeat without dropping.
In my understanding of the OP, juggling 'one' is being able to throw an object consistently to another hand without handing it. This is an intentional throw of the ball from one hand to another without "moving" the other hand to compensate.
Throwing from one hand to another, either directly or in an arc, requires the motorskills to move an object consistently while understanding the speed, trajectory, and then moving the other hand to receive (not catch) it as expected.
There are multiple elements at play with 3 object juggling. One must throw an arc toss to the other hand, while holding an object, then throwing the object in said hand to free the hand to catch. In reality you are holding two objects with one in motion - until you get the double arc which is now technically juggling.
Three bodies in motion, two hands that are each making circular or figure eight motions, while maintaining a consistent arc and speed (XY (no Z) + T = arc) where the mind either tracks or forgets allowing the predictable movements work themselves into only tracking one object at a time - by setting it's path and then shifting focus or attention to the next.
This made me chuckle:
>>TLDR: A complete guide to juggling, from zero to siteswap notation, by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
>>by someone who juggles in nightclubs.
I’m not sure if I’d laugh or be amazed at someone juggling at a nightclub. I guess it really depends on how well received the act is by their target audience (aka can a man pick up women via juggling?).
> aka can a man pick up women via juggling?
Sure: "Hey babe, wanna juggle my balls?". Works every time.
> can a man pick up women via juggling
Uhh, no. Regular people don't care the slightest about juggling. It definitely shouldn't be learned for that purpose lol
Juggling is so much fun! I use 3 balls and felt like it was easy, when you know where to start and simply follow the process step by step.
Memory Masters draw me to it, and I found some super normal niche Streamers showing what to do.
Juggling is some sort of meditation.
Enjoy!
I really enjoyed learning to juggle. My mum randomly brought a juggling book back from a second hand shop. It probably sat on a shelf for a year until one day my brother and I picked it up for some reason. It also goes to show how important it is to have access to lots of books. You never know when one might catch your interest.
Profoundly disagree with the author on skipping 6. It helped so much with my 7.
I do agree on clubs though. They were as big of a revelation as siteswap when I learned them and I'd highly recommend trying. Most juggling clubs(accumulations of people, not object) have loaner clubs and nice people willing to share theirs as well as teach.
I sure can't. After few throws I'll drop it. My body just gets bored of doing the same exact thing even just a handful of times. Same problem with exercise. Even zero balls sounds unbearable for more than 15 seconds.
I assumed most software eng from the early aughts can all juggle.
I went to school with a math genius who participated in international math Olympiads. Curiously he had no problem juggling multiple balls - and nobody taught him.
Juggling rats?
Slang for rationalists, apparently, according to another comment.
Reading this thread makes me wonder if I'm the only one who really tried to learn to juggle, only to fail even after a whole month of brute-forcing it, while my partner at the time, who started at my suggestion, managed it after 30 minutes! That was 15 years ago...
The other's in Albert Hall
I thought the second line was about Goering.
Just juggling with balls in the air gets boring very quickly, and the added numbers don't make it much different. Learning statics and flows from contact juggling, but performing them with standard juggling balls is so much more fun. And then you discover statics with hoops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF6UuPsw2i4
Is there anything HN related involved here other than autism?
HN guidelines say "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" is on-topic for HN
Don't be fatuous with me boy. It's clear that that criterion could justify any number of things that are always immediately flagged. In fact, it could justify literally anything being posted here.
Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
You think there's nothing about "politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities" that "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" that isn't "evidence of some interesting new phenomenon"?
This post is about a sport (juggling) and doesn't cover "new phenomena". So what the hell are we doing here? Any more rule nerd ass hall monitors want to drop another irrelevant rule in here?
Yeah, no juggling in class. Unless you brought enough for everyone?
Go to a juggling club and you'll find that a Venn diagram of juggler, nerd & technology has a lot of overlap.
For real? I am a juggling nerd, but didn't know that was a thing. I gotta go find my people now.
Why autism?
lol. Thank you for the laugh.
I’m there will you. I always laugh about how autism and SSRIs are not for discussion here. It’s too on the nose.