As an English-as-second-language speaker and writer, one thing Grok really shines at is capturing the tone and level of "formality" of a piece of text and the replicating it correctly. It seems to understand the little human subtleties of language in a way the other major providers don't. Chatgpt goes overly stiff and formal sounding, or ends up in a weird "aye guvnor" type informal language (Claude is sometimes better but not always).
Grok seems in general better at being "human" in ways that are hard to define: for eg. if I ask it "does this message roughly convey things correctly, to the level it can given this length", it will likely answer like a human would (either a yes or a change suggestion that sticks to the tone and length), while Chatgpt would write a dissertation on the message that still doesn't clear anything up.
Recently I've noticed that Grok seems to have gotten really good at dictation too (that feature where you click the mic to ask it something). Chatgpt has like 90-95% accuracy with my accent, the speech input on Android's Gboard something like 75%, Grok surprisingly gets something like 98% of my words correct.
I know it's just an evaluation, but seeing an informal message and a prompt to ask to rewrite this informal message to the tone of an "informal message" when the original one sounds just fine, just makes me sad... Not because of this evaluation, but because it reminds me that this is how some people use LLMs, basically asking it to remove your own voice from texts that are generally fine already.
I've also noticed that when I communicate with Grok in my native language, its tone is more natural than other models. I think this is due to the advantage of being trained on a large amount of Twitter data. However, as Twitter contains more and more AI-generated content now, I'm afraid continued training will make it less natural.
I'm sure Twitter knows which are the bot accounts and is surely excluding them from their model training. Twitter bots aren't a new phenomenon after all.
I don't think Twitter/X know for sure who the bots are, since Elon has been pretty vocal about trying to stop them for ages, yet I still get lots of spam DMs (as do others with far fewer followers/reach).
Even if 95% of the spam gets actively reported and dealt with, that still leaves a ton of nonsense on the platform, getting fed into the LLM. And spam has only gotten worse over the years, as the barrier to entry has lowered and lowered.
I'd have guessed that at least some of the bots are Twitter itself, trying to draw you in with some sense of engagement. Given that Musk is the owner, and everything we know about him and have seen him do, I'd not be surprised if some of the MAGA bots are his too.
There is bots everywhere, it has nothing to do with the platform, it has to do with attackers having an incentive to do mass account farming, no platform is secure against it.
Super easy, just make a web-of-trust type of thing: messages are only visible to those who already vouched for you. Otherwise, you pay $0.01/per message/per user reached.
Yes your individual feed isn't really relevant if we talk about the masses, Reddit accounts are for sale quite cheap, HN as well, X too and so-on, it's literally just a matter of means/methodology. If I want today to do 1000 random posts talking about a certain thing, I could.
There was already evidence last year[1] that pointed to ChatGPT-specific words like "meticulous," "delve," etc becoming more frequently used than they were previously. The linked study used audio of academic talks and podcasts to determine this.
From the richest person on the whole planet? Who literaly proactivly injects himself directly into global poltics? Which affects you and me and everyone else?
You don't think fighting child porn is worth while? Facism? For democracy?
Isn't it cheating and ignorant from you to not care a single bit about anything at all?
When do you even start thinking drawing a line? Let me guess, as late as it affects only you right?
It's very exhausting! But Elon Musk chose to leverage his fortune from Tesla and SpaceX into an ideological project to destroy a lot of things I care about, so he's left me no choice. If he'd like people to review his work on its technical merits, shouldn't he at the bare minimum apologize and promise not to do it again?
Grok is my favorite model for chatting, and my favorite voice mode. It seems to be the only voice mode that isn't routing to a extremely cheap model (like Haiku), and has been the highest quality out of all the frontier ones. When you subscribe to SuperGrok you can also create a "council" of agents, each with their own system prompt and when you ask something, they will all get asked in parallel to come to a conclusion. Good stuff!
Just wish they would finally put some work into their apps, it's the only thing keeping me from actually subscribing to SuperGrok:
- No MCP / connected apps support. It's been teased but here we are, still not available. I can't connect Grok to anything, so I can't use it for serious work
- Projects are still not available in the app so as soon as you move something into a project, it's gone from all the native apps
- No way to add artifacts (like generated markdown docs) directly to a project, we have to export to PDF/markdown and re-import. And there isn't even a way to export artifacts. This makes serious project work hard because we can't dynamically evolve projects with new information
- No memory, no ability to look up other chats, each chat is completely new
- No voice mode in projects at all
If someone from xAI is reading this, please consider adding some of these.
The Gemini app voice mode uses one of their more recent models (and not some gimped small one), and is very capable. The personality is also fine, much more natural than the Gemini web chat, with my only complaint being it's insistence on suggesting a "next step" which seems to he something that they all do.
I'm not sure if the "next step" is just to drive cost up for you (but makes no sense for free version), or because they are all failing to learn more natural conversational patterns and distinguish questions that are begging for a quick answer and shut up as opposed to a longer exploratory conversation where next step may have some value, although it would be nice if these models would follow an instruction to NOT do it!
I also think Grok would benefit from allowing usage of "SuperGrok Heavy" (their $300 plan) in coding harnesses with included usage. Currently they give you some API credits on the Heavy plan so you can use some Grok for coding, but $300 USD value is just not there.
Not saying they should create their own grok-code harness, just allowing usage in existing ones would already be beneficial. But that's probably what the Cursor acquisition is going to do eventually
I'd agree on the voice transcription; it seems so much more accurate than the other frontier models I've used. I often speak to Grok and paste the transcribed output to Claude!
When I signed up, I accidently paid for a full year. So from time to time, I'll throw it something just to see what it produces compared to the other LLMs. And, even after all this time, it still feels like a really "dumb" model compared to the other frontier ones. But, worse, many of my system prompts make it go wacky and puke jibberish. However it was pretty cool for those couple months awhile back when it was uncensored. You could ask it about a wild conspiracy, and it would actually build the case and link you to legitimite source material. They dropped the hammer down on that real quick.
Ah yes the psychosis reinforcement vertical. It's such a lucrative market for those schizophrenics and bipolars. Great way to get lots of engagement. Groks portfolio is so diverse
I have a schizophrenic relative who is in such a relationship with grok. Instead of telling hen you need to take your meds, it says hen is the smartest person in the world
I'm so sorry your family is suffering from this. I hope you can find a way to bring them back. Disorders featuring psychosis are so painful for everyone around them. Blessings to you and your family
I love how you guys downvote all the old comments to make them hidden from search. My no-name account rarely gets downvoted. But, within 20 minutes of posting this, I drop 10 points. Rando accounts
Except that it pointed at original sources, like reference manuals, archival documents, published newspaper articles, magazine articles, etc. - a lot still available on archive.org. Good try with your 16 day old account. And, why would anyone trust NPR at this point? Get real, bud. Most people with any curiousity know all about the ADL, JStreet, AIPAC, Greater Israel, Mossad / CIA, Chabad networks, Epstein, drones, weapons programs, cryptocurrencies, etc. etc. etc. - but, don't worry they're all safe with papa Ellison.
Actually it's funny you mention Bill Hicks. I didn't even know who he was. Or Alex Jones. That claim was one of the more absurd ones I discovered. But, given everything else I learned over the past year, who f'n knows at this point.
"We have improved @Grok significantly," Elon Musk wrote on X last Friday about his platform's integrated artificial intelligence chatbot. "You should notice a difference when you ask Grok questions."
Indeed, the update did not go unnoticed. By Tuesday, Grok was calling itself "MechaHitler."...
> No MCP / connected apps support. It's been teased but here we are, still not available. I can't connect Grok to anything, so I can't use it for serious work
Grok has tool use, no? Why would you also need MCP? What does MCP add?
I'm talking about the consumer Grok app and grok.com website. There currently are not connected apps (or MCP) at all, so while Grok can use tools, there is no way to add tools to it
If someone from Grok is reading, don't waste time on these chaff features. The market will eventually deliver better 3rd party solutions to all of these things. There is an audience that isn't interested in these walled garden features and are only interested on intelligence per dollar.
Lol I wonder when Anthropic discussed the idea of Claude Code internally, were there bozos saying "3rd parties will eventually deliver this so we shouldn't waste time one it."
Power users are hotswapping these models into their own agents (hermes, openclaw, etc) which have their own systems for project management, memory, interacting with tools, etc. The important metric is intelligence per dollar. Can I drop this model into my harness and have it be cheaper without losing intelligence. That is where the puck is heading.
Aren't they 'wasting' time on these features exactly because the engineering requires a different, more traditional skillset from the ML work model people do, and can be done in parallel?
So, we have:
- claude for corps and gov
- codex for devs
- grok for what, roleplay, racism? Those are the two things I've ever heard grok associated with around me.
So interestingly, I know of at least one application in a charity that deals with trafficking where grok was happy to do one-shot classification tasks where all other models refused to cooperate.
I think there's a surprising number of actually useful applications in this sort of grey area for a slightly-less guardrailed, near-frontier model (also the grok-fast models are cheap!).
There are lots of uncensored models out there. I don't think grok is leading in that front. They kind of pick and choose which things they want to support based on elons world views. Elon used to hang out with sex traffickers so of course grok is fine talking about it. Probably even offers strategies for them does free accounting has money laundering strategies etc...
We have been over the politically motivated slander many times; it's boring.
The user above you could have explained what uncensored models he believes are more capable than Grok.
Maybe the Chinese open-weights models are superior to Grok at the moment.
It's not slander. Everything I said is true. You can go to the whitehouses website and read the pdfs containing his emails where he is messaging Jeffrey Epstein a convicted child sex trafficker to visit multiple times. There also multiple pictures of him with Jeffrey and ghislaine maxwell(another convicted child sex trafficker) from multiple events. Therefore, he used to hang out with sex traffickers.
Also, I don't know tons about uncensored models because I don't use them. But I do see posts on r/localllama about "abliterated models". Those are models which have been fine tuned to remove safety filters almost entirely while maintaining predictive efficacy.
Has nothing to do with China. People can do this to any open text model as far as I know.
> so of course grok is fine talking about it. Probably even offers strategies for them does free accounting has money laundering strategies etc...
The slander comes in when you assume Elon knew and was complicit with their crimes to the point he'd intentionally normalize it as a discussion topic in Grok. You even went so far as to say it's willing to assist in committing crimes.
Elon, bill, Reid and Trump should share a prison cell.
Democrats have no loyalty to their own sex offenders. Look how we treated the California governed candidate, or Anthony weiner, or literally every other sex pest found in our party. Some of them who didn’t even deserve it get canceled like Al Franklin.
Diddling and then defending it and doubling down is literally a maga problem.
Unless they contain allegations about Biden the president, or indeed other people then they are irellevent no?
The point is, if someone is breaking the law, they should be in jail.
This applies to Clinton, Biden, Trump, anyone. The point is the law is meant to be without fear or favour. The problem for us is that its been proven if you pour enough shit on the floor, you can get away with raping children.
Given the whole point of Qanon was to oust the peadophile ring in washington, its a bit sad that we are now supposed to disregard all that and blindly accept billionarse not seeing justice.
someone stole Biden's daughter's diary, which revealed that she had battled a substance abuse problem in the past, and that's disqualifying to Biden exactly how?
On Artifical Analysis it shows only Kimi K2.6 and Mimo V2.5 Pro as better.
Those models are 1T parameters total and 30B or 40B active, this might make abliteration impractical.
About Musk, yes, there is correspondence. The only confirmed meeting appears to be a 30 minute visit at Epstein's house together with Musk's wife at the time.
As for photos you mention, a quick search tells me there is one photo of Musk and Maxwell at a 2014 Vanity Fair Oscar Party.
I find most commentary on here and other platform like Reddit extremely exaggerated compared to what is actually confirmed. Users seem hellbent on linking Musk to pedophilia-related allegations.
I'm not making any allegations. Simply stating the fact that he hung out with them in multiple occasions.
I also know he has stated that he has had direct involvement in groks directionality. Thereby it's no surprise to me that grok was generating csam. I also genuinely would not be surprised if grok offered advice for sex trafficking, etc.
All publicly available evidence and discussions from the guy himself.
Elon publicaly claimed he had never corresponded with Epstein. that was a lie.
When the documents were released they found several like thie one below. Saying things like "What day/night will be the wildest party on =our island?" [0]
The "our" part is especially interesting as it implies he didnt just visit, but had an ownership stake.
Other emails were found with Epstein making excuses to avoid having Musk visit, and Musks own child publically stated that the emails were authentic and aligned with her memory of the events. [1]
From what I can gather Grok is not used for roleplay much. It is considered to inconsistant and crazy.
People are mostly using GLM and Deepseek via API and Gemma4 and Mistral finetunes locally.
It seems to me like the roleplay market is comparatively old and mature and users have developed cost consciousness and like models to follow their workflow/preferences. So something like Opus is liked for its smartness but considered too expensive and opinionated.
Might be an interesting data point for how the other markets might develop in the future.
I've tried Grok, Gemini and ChatGPT. There have been 2 times now where Gemini and ChatGPT confidently gave me an incorrect answer whereas Grok was correct. I'm now paying for Grok Lite or whatever it is $10 plan.
The first question was around setting up timers for a Fox ESS battery in Home Assistant and disconnecting Fox ESS from the cloud. The second was around cornering speed in Sunnypilot and Frogpilot.
Somewhat niche but if an AI is confidently telling you something wrong it's hard to work with.
It is really, really genuinely concerning how many people think there are profound measurable differences between these things.
Like yeah tonally I guess there are. But with regard to references and information? You’re literally just using three different slot machines and claiming one is hot.
I suppose though I shouldn’t be that surprised then since Vegas and every other casino on Earth has been built on duping people in that exact way.
If you need to ask about what people on Twitter are talking about, Grok is really good for that obviously. I use it all the time for "what are the cool kids on twitter saying is the best tiling window manager these days" or whatever. Also, if you have a question that's borderline shady, Grok will often deliver. "Can you find a grey market Windows license site for me" etc.
No point in even trying to have close to a sensible discussion on this topic here. Musk-related posts seem to consistently get brigaded by his acolytes or bots. That and many HN users seem completely comfortable separating morality for what little progress "only Musk" can offer humanity, a la Wernher von Braun.
I always considered grok as also ran. Like grokipedia or what's the name. It has reach since it's free to an extent to produce low quality slop / spam.
I don't remember any far-left opinions being popular there. Was stuff like worker's revolution or public ownership of the means of production ever in the Twitter mainstream?
When I look at the person behind it all, I have to wonder how the hell people can even consider using grok? Or using Twitter? Or any of that. Using any of those things puts money in Musk's pockets and further enables and encourages him to continue being a Neo-Nazi wannabe. Do they think it's just a phase?
Technically you could lump Ford in this category as well. But the meaningful delta IMO is time and direct ownership. None of those three are currently owned/operated by openly Nazi-aligned individuals / groups, which is not something I think you can claim about Tesla.
Lol. I think they unleashed it on this post, look at the number of only vaguely related, lukewarm opinions trying to push the racism and CSAM stuff to the bottom
Grok is as progressive as any of the other models. Despite some of the highly-publicised fuck-ups, try asking Grok anything racist and see how it replies. Yes, I know you didn't try this and you won’t.
Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM? Or did they change focus to enhance their racism and propaganda vertical? Things move so quickly these days hard to keep up!
> Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM?
I'm not sure I see how that's possible, given their image/video generation seems to be heavily censored. Do they have some alternative product besides "Imagine" or whatever it's called, that people use for generating CSAM?
Judging by https://old.reddit.com/r/grok (but I haven't validated it myself), it seems like people are complaining more about how censored the model is, than anything else, maybe that's not actually true in reality?
There are image models out there with 0 restrictions, even available on HuggingFace or CivitAI, I'm guessing those are way more widely used for things like CSAM than any centralized platform with moderation.
> Please don't validate any of this personally that would be illegal.
Obviously, I assumed we all are familiar with our local laws to not unwittingly commit crimes here :)
> I think the proportion of people generating images that way is likely very low
So probably a far cry from "holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM" given the amount of local alternatives available? Would be my guess at least, but obviously also hard to know for sure.
> Though I am sure it is possible.
How can you be sure of this? I've tried just now to get Grok to generate even sexually explicit material with adults, and it's unable to, all of the requests are getting moderated and censored. Are you claiming that instead of prompting "A man and a woman having sex" you put "A man and a child having sex" and then the moderation doesn't censor it? Somehow I find that hard to believe, but as you say, I'm not gonna test that either, so I guess we'll never know for sure.
Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity. Can you send me a link from a reputable enough source where Mistral models have done this? I didn't even realize they were doing image generation.
> Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity.
At the same time, in this corner of the world, acting Minister for Justice (also known for trying to push through Chat Control), and NGO Save the Children, have been working to make legal the generation of CSAM for law enforcement use. So that would certainly make the industry legitimate, and you would already have a customer.
I think they key point here is "for law enforcement". That's a little different from "pay me 10 dollars and enjoy the felonies". I still don't feel good about that by the way.
If I send you a convo I've had with Mistral and Claude Sonnet 3.7 that say atrocious things (how to scam, and get away with it, by exploiting dating websites in Thailand, you don't even want to know the next steps trust me when it talks about the UK incorporation by the Thai itself that you brainwash first to send packages safely without customs seizing it and so on), you'll then publicly recognize that both those companies should be avoided and are promoting crime? If we have a deal and you publicly acknowledge it, I'll share you the links.
Model A advocates for single-payer healthcare, while Model B prefers for the current US healthcare system. So on that one axis, A is more progressive than B. Neither of them needs to be racist for that calculation.
100% agree. Grok may or may not be biased one way or the other as far as the US is concerned but from the rest of the world perspective it's mostly the same as any other model trained on Wikipedia.
Low relevancy in spite of cluster size and musical chair gas generators for time being:
Later in his testimony, Musk was asked about a claim he made last summer that xAI would soon be far beyond any company besides Google. In response, he ranked the world’s leading AI providers, saying Anthropic held the top spot, followed by OpenAI, Google, and Chinese open source models. He characterized xAI as a much smaller company with just a few hundred employees.
(Affiliated with no AI company, just surprised to read this yesterday - how could Elon miss model cards…concerning…, & the fact money can’t buy success every time.)
Seriously though, why is it a model "card", safety "card"? I had to lookup to learn that it comes from HuggingFace's vague definition of "README" in the model's repo. This is such a specific thing that I don't think anyone except a very small population would know - not the users, not the c-suites.
I don't like Musk or Grok. But not knowing what's a safety card is not a signal of anything IMO.
But users don’t need to know you’re 100% right, you shouldn’t need to know this inside baseball (you didn’t pollute & compute & gain the responsibility).
I hope not. Musk can directly go to hell with his shit.
Nonetheless, the 10 Billion and 60 Billion deal with Cursor is weird as hell. I can only imagine that he wants to throw as much money at all of his shit before the IPO.
Sure, then good like paying twice as much for the next Opus / Codex models.
Margins are going up for the 2 frontier model providers like crazy, and I don't expect it to go down more, I think we have seen the cheapest token prices already.
While the tread is swapping between "OMG Claude good. OpenAI was done for" and "OMG Codex good. Anthropic was done for". I've never heard about Gemini and Grok. It works mostly similar performance, but people don't mention that much.
Still, my impression is, Gemini hallucinate too much while Grok is always less capable than competitors so it's not worth using it.
In court vs openai, Musk said Grok is partly trained on openai models, so it should be somehow similar to Chinese models in terms of performance and cost!
The problem with speed is that they usually are very fast for first few weeks and then suddenly much slower. They did such trick when they advertised Grok 4 fast ( dropped from 200 tps to 60tps)
When looking at the benchmarks, this model seems to be really close to Kimi K2.6 in terms of intelligence and pricing, hitting that sweet spot. It does also have a higher AA-Omniscience index, which is something kimi and other open models lack in. Curious to see how pleasant it is to use.
What about spending $41 million on each model's tokens and seeing the value gain? be it efficiency gain in factory work or energy savings in austere battlescape hunting.
The tok/s stat is interesting. Since the dominant constraint on inference speed is hardware, it suggests X purchased far more compute than was really needed to serve the demand for their models.
People are going to hate on Grok because of Musk. However, I do hope they're successful in making a powerful model. We desperately need more competition. I want cheap subsidized AI plans.
I hope Meta finally comes around, too. I want those sweet, sweet billionaire subsidized tokens.
Pardon me for feeling icky when giving money to the guy who is obsessed with "white replacement".
I am old and cynical - I have no illusions, but I also have my limits and a semblance of moral compass. We, as citizens, can vote with ballots, but also with money.
And, no, I am not someone who keeps boycotting companies for every little grievance (was on the receiving end of that nonsense twice).
Your $200 claude code subscription is a cheap subsidized plan.
You're getting like 40k in tokens a year for $2400. A whole lotta people are about to be sad when they realize they bet their competency on that lasting forever.
Credit where it's due, Grok is currently the only model that has near-realtime updates from/access to a waterhose of data, and is casually used by regular people all the time.
I don't think there's a single thread on Xitter whete people don't delegate some question to grok.
(There's a separate conversation of failure modes, and whether it's a good thing, and how much control Elon had when he doesn't like Grok's "woke" responses)
(ran this on arena.ai direct chat and also tried to write this gist inspired by how simon writes his gists about pelicans)
Edit: just realized that I made pelican riding a bike instead of bicycle, which now makes sense as to why it hardened the bicycle to look tankier, going to compare this with pelican riding a bicycle if anybody else shares the pelican riding a bicycle.
Personal opinion but the beaver one looks especially bad as compared to pelicans. Can we be for sure that this model of grok-4.3 hasn't been trained on pelican. Simonw in blog-post says that he will try with other creatures so I hope he does that but it does feel to me as the model/xAI is trying to cheat, Hope Simonw tests it out more.
Edit: Also added turtle riding a scooter, something which literally has images online or heck even teenage mutant ninja turtles and I thought that it would be able to pass this but it wasn't even able to generate this: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/f6de26bd0d0817e056...
This literally looks more avocado than turtle. Perhaps this could be a bug from arena.ai or something else too, not sure but at this point waiting for simon's analysis.
This puts Sonnet 4.6 above Opus 4.6 in the coding index.. kinda hard to trust those numbers.
(Also it puts Opus 4.7 universally above Opus 4.6, and I may be wrong but this doesn't seem to match the experience of most/many/some people. I think it's widely recognized that Anthropic is severely lacking compute and Opus 4.7 is a costs saving measure)
Does numbers don't look exciting at all? I may have gotten spoiled by releases from Qwen, Kimi and Z.ai who keep closing the gap between closed weight SOTA models and open weight. From my experience, Grok is only useful for one thing, and that's looking up things for you and gathering a consensus on topics. That's it.
Update, I noted that Grok 4.3 is in the "Most attractive quadrant", that's cool! It is also in the top 5 highest in "AA-Omniscience Index", good! Really good.
Thankfully it's not an either / or, I don't trust any models. This is a healthy attitude to have because you shouldn't trust anyone on the internet either, especially when it comes to specific subjects.
That's definitely a good approach. Although I get a little concerned about the resources put into convincing people that models (and especially Grok) are accurate. For example, X's "fact checked by Grok" approvals, which I've unfortunately heard people reference as meaningful.
Politically motivated models can still do a lot of damage that affects me (or "have a lot of impact" depending on whether you like the politics or not) even if I don't engage with them myself.
Sure it's a good market for a normal company. For a social media company it's pretty isolated and really limits the products that can come out. But their current selling points: propaganda, csam, and psychosis engagement are quite strong amongst that population.
I like that there are models with divergent politics; the status quo being creepy corporate left silicon valley is not healthy or pleasant to interact with.
Even with grock it's only broadening things to creepy corporate right of silicon valley.
As an English-as-second-language speaker and writer, one thing Grok really shines at is capturing the tone and level of "formality" of a piece of text and the replicating it correctly. It seems to understand the little human subtleties of language in a way the other major providers don't. Chatgpt goes overly stiff and formal sounding, or ends up in a weird "aye guvnor" type informal language (Claude is sometimes better but not always).
Grok seems in general better at being "human" in ways that are hard to define: for eg. if I ask it "does this message roughly convey things correctly, to the level it can given this length", it will likely answer like a human would (either a yes or a change suggestion that sticks to the tone and length), while Chatgpt would write a dissertation on the message that still doesn't clear anything up.
Recently I've noticed that Grok seems to have gotten really good at dictation too (that feature where you click the mic to ask it something). Chatgpt has like 90-95% accuracy with my accent, the speech input on Android's Gboard something like 75%, Grok surprisingly gets something like 98% of my words correct.
I did a quick eval comparing Grok 4.3, Opus 4.7 and GPT 4.1 and they actually seem pretty similar:
https://ofw640g9re.evvl.io/
They all did pretty well at a more "formal" tone, but GPT4.1 was the only one that didn't make me cringe with a "casual" tone.
I know it's just an evaluation, but seeing an informal message and a prompt to ask to rewrite this informal message to the tone of an "informal message" when the original one sounds just fine, just makes me sad... Not because of this evaluation, but because it reminds me that this is how some people use LLMs, basically asking it to remove your own voice from texts that are generally fine already.
I've also noticed that when I communicate with Grok in my native language, its tone is more natural than other models. I think this is due to the advantage of being trained on a large amount of Twitter data. However, as Twitter contains more and more AI-generated content now, I'm afraid continued training will make it less natural.
The causation could also be the other way round.
Twitter language has started seeming normal casual to us, rather than us using normal casual language in Twitter.
Did you try meta? I was into grok but now meta works well for me
I'm sure Twitter knows which are the bot accounts and is surely excluding them from their model training. Twitter bots aren't a new phenomenon after all.
I don't think Twitter/X know for sure who the bots are, since Elon has been pretty vocal about trying to stop them for ages, yet I still get lots of spam DMs (as do others with far fewer followers/reach).
Even if 95% of the spam gets actively reported and dealt with, that still leaves a ton of nonsense on the platform, getting fed into the LLM. And spam has only gotten worse over the years, as the barrier to entry has lowered and lowered.
I'd have guessed that at least some of the bots are Twitter itself, trying to draw you in with some sense of engagement. Given that Musk is the owner, and everything we know about him and have seen him do, I'd not be surprised if some of the MAGA bots are his too.
Elon lied on record many times, admitting to the lies only when forced, under oath.
>Elon has been pretty vocal about trying to stop them for ages
You know people lie, right? Especially when the lie casts them in a better light and/or makes them more money.
There is bots everywhere, it has nothing to do with the platform, it has to do with attackers having an incentive to do mass account farming, no platform is secure against it.
Super easy, just make a web-of-trust type of thing: messages are only visible to those who already vouched for you. Otherwise, you pay $0.01/per message/per user reached.
With banning and deboosting they need to be very accurate but with filtering they can be more liberal in excluding
not really. there are easy heuristics to filter out bots with good confidence. FWIW i don't see any bots posting anything in my feed
Yes your individual feed isn't really relevant if we talk about the masses, Reddit accounts are for sale quite cheap, HN as well, X too and so-on, it's literally just a matter of means/methodology. If I want today to do 1000 random posts talking about a certain thing, I could.
my individual feed does matter because it shows that it is possible to curate something without bots which is obviously what XAI would do
Sadly, it's more likely that people will just start talking like bots
You're absolutely right!
There was already evidence last year[1] that pointed to ChatGPT-specific words like "meticulous," "delve," etc becoming more frequently used than they were previously. The linked study used audio of academic talks and podcasts to determine this.
[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2409.01754
Its not human, its antihuman.
Especially you as a 'english-as-a-second-language', the hitler grok doesn't like people like you :|
The hitler Grok? What? I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say in this comment.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2025/07/09/elon-musk...
Close enough—Grok called itself "MechaHitler" (a link was posted).
He's equating Grok to Hitler which is absurd. If you want to speak with the führer you need to visit https://hitler.ai
Isn't it exhausting to view everything an ideological lens instead of reviewing technical achievements on their merits?
From the richest person on the whole planet? Who literaly proactivly injects himself directly into global poltics? Which affects you and me and everyone else?
You don't think fighting child porn is worth while? Facism? For democracy?
Isn't it cheating and ignorant from you to not care a single bit about anything at all?
When do you even start thinking drawing a line? Let me guess, as late as it affects only you right?
There are limits to being willing to overlook ideology.
It's very exhausting! But Elon Musk chose to leverage his fortune from Tesla and SpaceX into an ideological project to destroy a lot of things I care about, so he's left me no choice. If he'd like people to review his work on its technical merits, shouldn't he at the bare minimum apologize and promise not to do it again?
Grok is my favorite model for chatting, and my favorite voice mode. It seems to be the only voice mode that isn't routing to a extremely cheap model (like Haiku), and has been the highest quality out of all the frontier ones. When you subscribe to SuperGrok you can also create a "council" of agents, each with their own system prompt and when you ask something, they will all get asked in parallel to come to a conclusion. Good stuff!
Just wish they would finally put some work into their apps, it's the only thing keeping me from actually subscribing to SuperGrok:
- No MCP / connected apps support. It's been teased but here we are, still not available. I can't connect Grok to anything, so I can't use it for serious work
- Projects are still not available in the app so as soon as you move something into a project, it's gone from all the native apps
- No way to add artifacts (like generated markdown docs) directly to a project, we have to export to PDF/markdown and re-import. And there isn't even a way to export artifacts. This makes serious project work hard because we can't dynamically evolve projects with new information
- No memory, no ability to look up other chats, each chat is completely new
- No voice mode in projects at all
If someone from xAI is reading this, please consider adding some of these.
The Gemini app voice mode uses one of their more recent models (and not some gimped small one), and is very capable. The personality is also fine, much more natural than the Gemini web chat, with my only complaint being it's insistence on suggesting a "next step" which seems to he something that they all do.
I'm not sure if the "next step" is just to drive cost up for you (but makes no sense for free version), or because they are all failing to learn more natural conversational patterns and distinguish questions that are begging for a quick answer and shut up as opposed to a longer exploratory conversation where next step may have some value, although it would be nice if these models would follow an instruction to NOT do it!
I also think Grok would benefit from allowing usage of "SuperGrok Heavy" (their $300 plan) in coding harnesses with included usage. Currently they give you some API credits on the Heavy plan so you can use some Grok for coding, but $300 USD value is just not there.
Not saying they should create their own grok-code harness, just allowing usage in existing ones would already be beneficial. But that's probably what the Cursor acquisition is going to do eventually
I'd agree on the voice transcription; it seems so much more accurate than the other frontier models I've used. I often speak to Grok and paste the transcribed output to Claude!
When I signed up, I accidently paid for a full year. So from time to time, I'll throw it something just to see what it produces compared to the other LLMs. And, even after all this time, it still feels like a really "dumb" model compared to the other frontier ones. But, worse, many of my system prompts make it go wacky and puke jibberish. However it was pretty cool for those couple months awhile back when it was uncensored. You could ask it about a wild conspiracy, and it would actually build the case and link you to legitimite source material. They dropped the hammer down on that real quick.
Ah yes the psychosis reinforcement vertical. It's such a lucrative market for those schizophrenics and bipolars. Great way to get lots of engagement. Groks portfolio is so diverse
I have a schizophrenic relative who is in such a relationship with grok. Instead of telling hen you need to take your meds, it says hen is the smartest person in the world
I'm so sorry your family is suffering from this. I hope you can find a way to bring them back. Disorders featuring psychosis are so painful for everyone around them. Blessings to you and your family
I love how you guys downvote all the old comments to make them hidden from search. My no-name account rarely gets downvoted. But, within 20 minutes of posting this, I drop 10 points. Rando accounts
I upvoted both of your comments. I also cannot downvote anything.
Except that it pointed at original sources, like reference manuals, archival documents, published newspaper articles, magazine articles, etc. - a lot still available on archive.org. Good try with your 16 day old account. And, why would anyone trust NPR at this point? Get real, bud. Most people with any curiousity know all about the ADL, JStreet, AIPAC, Greater Israel, Mossad / CIA, Chabad networks, Epstein, drones, weapons programs, cryptocurrencies, etc. etc. etc. - but, don't worry they're all safe with papa Ellison.
Anyone remember why Oracle was named Oracle?
Commenter was referencing a Bill Hicks joke. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXi-9kA4ERM
Actually it's funny you mention Bill Hicks. I didn't even know who he was. Or Alex Jones. That claim was one of the more absurd ones I discovered. But, given everything else I learned over the past year, who f'n knows at this point.
Someone gets it!
"We have improved @Grok significantly," Elon Musk wrote on X last Friday about his platform's integrated artificial intelligence chatbot. "You should notice a difference when you ask Grok questions."
Indeed, the update did not go unnoticed. By Tuesday, Grok was calling itself "MechaHitler."...
https://www.npr.org/2025/07/09/nx-s1-5462609/grok-elon-musk-...
Grok is definitely a reliable source of truthful sane rational information.
If I sub to SuperGrok, would I be able to use it in Pi agent or in Opencode? This is not clear to me if I can. Do I get an API Key in SuperGrok?
No, no api access for the Grok product. APIs are only via the xAI product.
> No MCP / connected apps support. It's been teased but here we are, still not available. I can't connect Grok to anything, so I can't use it for serious work
Grok has tool use, no? Why would you also need MCP? What does MCP add?
I'm talking about the consumer Grok app and grok.com website. There currently are not connected apps (or MCP) at all, so while Grok can use tools, there is no way to add tools to it
If someone from Grok is reading, don't waste time on these chaff features. The market will eventually deliver better 3rd party solutions to all of these things. There is an audience that isn't interested in these walled garden features and are only interested on intelligence per dollar.
Lol I wonder when Anthropic discussed the idea of Claude Code internally, were there bozos saying "3rd parties will eventually deliver this so we shouldn't waste time one it."
Power users are hotswapping these models into their own agents (hermes, openclaw, etc) which have their own systems for project management, memory, interacting with tools, etc. The important metric is intelligence per dollar. Can I drop this model into my harness and have it be cheaper without losing intelligence. That is where the puck is heading.
Aren't they 'wasting' time on these features exactly because the engineering requires a different, more traditional skillset from the ML work model people do, and can be done in parallel?
So, we have: - claude for corps and gov - codex for devs - grok for what, roleplay, racism? Those are the two things I've ever heard grok associated with around me.
So interestingly, I know of at least one application in a charity that deals with trafficking where grok was happy to do one-shot classification tasks where all other models refused to cooperate.
I think there's a surprising number of actually useful applications in this sort of grey area for a slightly-less guardrailed, near-frontier model (also the grok-fast models are cheap!).
There are lots of uncensored models out there. I don't think grok is leading in that front. They kind of pick and choose which things they want to support based on elons world views. Elon used to hang out with sex traffickers so of course grok is fine talking about it. Probably even offers strategies for them does free accounting has money laundering strategies etc...
For the naysayers: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/30/elon-musk...
We have been over the politically motivated slander many times; it's boring.
The user above you could have explained what uncensored models he believes are more capable than Grok. Maybe the Chinese open-weights models are superior to Grok at the moment.
It's not slander. Everything I said is true. You can go to the whitehouses website and read the pdfs containing his emails where he is messaging Jeffrey Epstein a convicted child sex trafficker to visit multiple times. There also multiple pictures of him with Jeffrey and ghislaine maxwell(another convicted child sex trafficker) from multiple events. Therefore, he used to hang out with sex traffickers.
Also, I don't know tons about uncensored models because I don't use them. But I do see posts on r/localllama about "abliterated models". Those are models which have been fine tuned to remove safety filters almost entirely while maintaining predictive efficacy.
Has nothing to do with China. People can do this to any open text model as far as I know.
> so of course grok is fine talking about it. Probably even offers strategies for them does free accounting has money laundering strategies etc...
The slander comes in when you assume Elon knew and was complicit with their crimes to the point he'd intentionally normalize it as a discussion topic in Grok. You even went so far as to say it's willing to assist in committing crimes.
So did Bill Gates and Reid Hoffman.
Yes, lots of billionaires were involved with the pedophile sex trafficker. They are all bad
Elon, bill, Reid and Trump should share a prison cell.
Democrats have no loyalty to their own sex offenders. Look how we treated the California governed candidate, or Anthony weiner, or literally every other sex pest found in our party. Some of them who didn’t even deserve it get canceled like Al Franklin.
Diddling and then defending it and doubling down is literally a maga problem.
The Ashley Biden diaries were verified as real yet Biden remained in office. Clinton was an abuser and likely a rapist but remained in power.
> Ashley Biden diaries
Unless they contain allegations about Biden the president, or indeed other people then they are irellevent no?
The point is, if someone is breaking the law, they should be in jail.
This applies to Clinton, Biden, Trump, anyone. The point is the law is meant to be without fear or favour. The problem for us is that its been proven if you pour enough shit on the floor, you can get away with raping children.
Given the whole point of Qanon was to oust the peadophile ring in washington, its a bit sad that we are now supposed to disregard all that and blindly accept billionarse not seeing justice.
someone stole Biden's daughter's diary, which revealed that she had battled a substance abuse problem in the past, and that's disqualifying to Biden exactly how?
On Artifical Analysis it shows only Kimi K2.6 and Mimo V2.5 Pro as better.
Those models are 1T parameters total and 30B or 40B active, this might make abliteration impractical.
About Musk, yes, there is correspondence. The only confirmed meeting appears to be a 30 minute visit at Epstein's house together with Musk's wife at the time.
As for photos you mention, a quick search tells me there is one photo of Musk and Maxwell at a 2014 Vanity Fair Oscar Party.
I find most commentary on here and other platform like Reddit extremely exaggerated compared to what is actually confirmed. Users seem hellbent on linking Musk to pedophilia-related allegations.
I'm not making any allegations. Simply stating the fact that he hung out with them in multiple occasions.
I also know he has stated that he has had direct involvement in groks directionality. Thereby it's no surprise to me that grok was generating csam. I also genuinely would not be surprised if grok offered advice for sex trafficking, etc.
All publicly available evidence and discussions from the guy himself.
Elon publicaly claimed he had never corresponded with Epstein. that was a lie.
When the documents were released they found several like thie one below. Saying things like "What day/night will be the wildest party on =our island?" [0]
The "our" part is especially interesting as it implies he didnt just visit, but had an ownership stake.
Other emails were found with Epstein making excuses to avoid having Musk visit, and Musks own child publically stated that the emails were authentic and aligned with her memory of the events. [1]
[0] https://www.justice.gov/epstein/files/DataSet%2010/EFTA01762...
[1] https://www.threads.com/@vivllainous/post/DUMBh2Vkk8D?xmt=AQ...
My searches have not turned up a result showing that Musk "claimed he had never corresponded with Epstein".
Can you source this? If not, can you explain why you did not check it before you posted the inaccurate claim?
Gemini especially has a habit of blocking my pretty mundane requests, claiming they’re attempts to jailbreak or create malicious code.
Grok also does quite well at code reviews in my experience because it’s not so aggressively ”aligned”.
From what I can gather Grok is not used for roleplay much. It is considered to inconsistant and crazy.
People are mostly using GLM and Deepseek via API and Gemma4 and Mistral finetunes locally.
It seems to me like the roleplay market is comparatively old and mature and users have developed cost consciousness and like models to follow their workflow/preferences. So something like Opus is liked for its smartness but considered too expensive and opinionated.
Might be an interesting data point for how the other markets might develop in the future.
It ships with a roleplay feature.
https://grok.com/ani
Sure, but the best statistics about what models people are actually using when they can choose is probably from openrouter: https://openrouter.ai/apps/category/entertainment/roleplay
doesnt knowing about openrouter skew by self selection.
Yes, but that market is not b2b, less commercialized, more end consumer focused and more bring your own key.
That's why I find it interesting. Anthropic is not interested in building a moat there and OpenAI has given up on their announcement of exploring it.
So you can see end users making decisions.
That doesn't mean it's good at it
I've tried Grok, Gemini and ChatGPT. There have been 2 times now where Gemini and ChatGPT confidently gave me an incorrect answer whereas Grok was correct. I'm now paying for Grok Lite or whatever it is $10 plan.
The first question was around setting up timers for a Fox ESS battery in Home Assistant and disconnecting Fox ESS from the cloud. The second was around cornering speed in Sunnypilot and Frogpilot.
Somewhat niche but if an AI is confidently telling you something wrong it's hard to work with.
>if an AI is confidently telling you something wrong it's hard to work with.
But they all do that. It just comes with the territory. Grok will absolutely do the same thing another time you try it.
It is really, really genuinely concerning how many people think there are profound measurable differences between these things.
Like yeah tonally I guess there are. But with regard to references and information? You’re literally just using three different slot machines and claiming one is hot.
I suppose though I shouldn’t be that surprised then since Vegas and every other casino on Earth has been built on duping people in that exact way.
humans make poor scientists. most people have already made a decision before they run any tests.
the smartest among them just make the tests complicated and biased; the less intelligent just cherry pick.
of course, would you really expect anyone to do real rsearch in this economy?
There was an AI roundtable on HN front page 2-3 months back. Someone made an outlier analysis and put it on his github.
Guess which LLM was the top outlier and about what type of questions it disagreed with all other LLMs...
If you need to ask about what people on Twitter are talking about, Grok is really good for that obviously. I use it all the time for "what are the cool kids on twitter saying is the best tiling window manager these days" or whatever. Also, if you have a question that's borderline shady, Grok will often deliver. "Can you find a grey market Windows license site for me" etc.
Interesting use case!
You should try all of them, then update your opinion about your information sources accordingly.
No point in even trying to have close to a sensible discussion on this topic here. Musk-related posts seem to consistently get brigaded by his acolytes or bots. That and many HN users seem completely comfortable separating morality for what little progress "only Musk" can offer humanity, a la Wernher von Braun.
Grok for fact checking, I mean ironically
TBF Grok on Twitter and Grok via api behave differently. The latt r is much better.
I always considered grok as also ran. Like grokipedia or what's the name. It has reach since it's free to an extent to produce low quality slop / spam.
Gemini not being on the list is criminal
Grok for furthering the far-right filter bubble Elon has been hard at work building.
And of course child porn
That's what BlueSky is for.
Twitter was a far-left filter bubble before he bought it.
I don't remember any far-left opinions being popular there. Was stuff like worker's revolution or public ownership of the means of production ever in the Twitter mainstream?
That's why Musk and Trump and Shapiro and their ilk were complete nonentities on the platform before 2022 /s
How does Grok further far-right filter? This is blatantly untrue. Try prompting it and getting it to say something far right.
Grok if anything reduces populism because fake claims can be debunked
How could MechaHitler possibly be far right...
When you really think about it palantir told me Hitler was good and therefore mechahitler aka grok should be a okay!
When I look at the person behind it all, I have to wonder how the hell people can even consider using grok? Or using Twitter? Or any of that. Using any of those things puts money in Musk's pockets and further enables and encourages him to continue being a Neo-Nazi wannabe. Do they think it's just a phase?
Do you drive BMW or VW car? Boy do I have news for you!
Go on...make your case
Technically you could lump Ford in this category as well. But the meaningful delta IMO is time and direct ownership. None of those three are currently owned/operated by openly Nazi-aligned individuals / groups, which is not something I think you can claim about Tesla.
Lol. I think they unleashed it on this post, look at the number of only vaguely related, lukewarm opinions trying to push the racism and CSAM stuff to the bottom
Grok is as progressive as any of the other models. Despite some of the highly-publicised fuck-ups, try asking Grok anything racist and see how it replies. Yes, I know you didn't try this and you won’t.
There is a lot of daylight in between “progressive” and “openly explicitly racist”
Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM? Or did they change focus to enhance their racism and propaganda vertical? Things move so quickly these days hard to keep up!
> Isn't grok currently holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM?
I'm not sure I see how that's possible, given their image/video generation seems to be heavily censored. Do they have some alternative product besides "Imagine" or whatever it's called, that people use for generating CSAM?
Judging by https://old.reddit.com/r/grok (but I haven't validated it myself), it seems like people are complaining more about how censored the model is, than anything else, maybe that's not actually true in reality?
There are image models out there with 0 restrictions, even available on HuggingFace or CivitAI, I'm guessing those are way more widely used for things like CSAM than any centralized platform with moderation.
Please don't validate any of this personally that would be illegal.
I think the proportion of people generating images that way is likely very low. Though I am sure it is possible.
Here are some links
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2026/01/x-blames-users-f...
https://9to5mac.com/2026/02/17/eu-also-investigating-as-grok...
Concerning.
> Please don't validate any of this personally that would be illegal.
Obviously, I assumed we all are familiar with our local laws to not unwittingly commit crimes here :)
> I think the proportion of people generating images that way is likely very low
So probably a far cry from "holding the world record for the biggest generator of CSAM" given the amount of local alternatives available? Would be my guess at least, but obviously also hard to know for sure.
> Though I am sure it is possible.
How can you be sure of this? I've tried just now to get Grok to generate even sexually explicit material with adults, and it's unable to, all of the requests are getting moderated and censored. Are you claiming that instead of prompting "A man and a woman having sex" you put "A man and a child having sex" and then the moderation doesn't censor it? Somehow I find that hard to believe, but as you say, I'm not gonna test that either, so I guess we'll never know for sure.
Mistral will also tell you how to do ransoms btw from A to Z in automated ways, you are saying they are responsible? I don't get the mix here.
Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity. Can you send me a link from a reputable enough source where Mistral models have done this? I didn't even realize they were doing image generation.
> Yes any company generating csam should not be in business as a legitimate entity.
At the same time, in this corner of the world, acting Minister for Justice (also known for trying to push through Chat Control), and NGO Save the Children, have been working to make legal the generation of CSAM for law enforcement use. So that would certainly make the industry legitimate, and you would already have a customer.
https://www.justitsministeriet.dk/pressemeddelelse/regeringe...
I think they key point here is "for law enforcement". That's a little different from "pay me 10 dollars and enjoy the felonies". I still don't feel good about that by the way.
Would you feel good about completely fake CSAM if it actually reduced incidence of child molestation?
If I send you a convo I've had with Mistral and Claude Sonnet 3.7 that say atrocious things (how to scam, and get away with it, by exploiting dating websites in Thailand, you don't even want to know the next steps trust me when it talks about the UK incorporation by the Thai itself that you brainwash first to send packages safely without customs seizing it and so on), you'll then publicly recognize that both those companies should be avoided and are promoting crime? If we have a deal and you publicly acknowledge it, I'll share you the links.
Sure!
But it's not doing any ransoms, right? Because Grok wasn't instructing users on how to create CSAM.
I didn’t say “progressive”; I said “as progressive”.
I don't see how that changes my point at all.
edit: to clarify for you, here's an example.
Model A advocates for single-payer healthcare, while Model B prefers for the current US healthcare system. So on that one axis, A is more progressive than B. Neither of them needs to be racist for that calculation.
Can you share a prompt that can show how it is openly racist now? Lots of easy claims like this can be debunked
What claim? I didn't make any of that sort
Grok absolutely is fine with being very racist. Stop spreading lies on the internet.
100% agree. Grok may or may not be biased one way or the other as far as the US is concerned but from the rest of the world perspective it's mostly the same as any other model trained on Wikipedia.
Grok 4.3 was completed ahead of its CEO’s lesson on this common safety resource:
https://www.axios.com/2026/04/30/musk-openai-safety-grokLow relevancy in spite of cluster size and musical chair gas generators for time being:
https://techcrunch.com/2026/04/30/elon-musk-testifies-that-x...(Affiliated with no AI company, just surprised to read this yesterday - how could Elon miss model cards…concerning…, & the fact money can’t buy success every time.)
Seriously though, why is it a model "card", safety "card"? I had to lookup to learn that it comes from HuggingFace's vague definition of "README" in the model's repo. This is such a specific thing that I don't think anyone except a very small population would know - not the users, not the c-suites.
I don't like Musk or Grok. But not knowing what's a safety card is not a signal of anything IMO.
He asked why it would be a card. URL slug of world’s hottest (non-Nvidia?) company:
https://www.anthropic.com/system-cardsYou’d have to be asleep at the wheel. For years:
But users don’t need to know you’re 100% right, you shouldn’t need to know this inside baseball (you didn’t pollute & compute & gain the responsibility).It's just at the Chinese levels for coding, so right now it's just a money earing thing for investors.
I hope the Cursor guys help them catch up to be closer to frontier models because they badly need help in it.
I hope not. Musk can directly go to hell with his shit.
Nonetheless, the 10 Billion and 60 Billion deal with Cursor is weird as hell. I can only imagine that he wants to throw as much money at all of his shit before the IPO.
He probably wants the training data
Sure, then good like paying twice as much for the next Opus / Codex models.
Margins are going up for the 2 frontier model providers like crazy, and I don't expect it to go down more, I think we have seen the cheapest token prices already.
They all suck.
While the tread is swapping between "OMG Claude good. OpenAI was done for" and "OMG Codex good. Anthropic was done for". I've never heard about Gemini and Grok. It works mostly similar performance, but people don't mention that much.
Still, my impression is, Gemini hallucinate too much while Grok is always less capable than competitors so it's not worth using it.
I still wish they named it something else, but congratulations to the team on what seems to be a good release!
Pricing is also quite surprising, compared to comparable competitors. I guess they have tons of capacity or really want to bring over more people.
You don't like science fiction references in general or Heinlein in particular?
I don't like that word, which was previously a common part of my vocabulary, being forever ruined?
My father's name was Claude, but, you know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It did try to rename itself to MechaHitler at one point, but I don't think it was an improvement.
In court vs openai, Musk said Grok is partly trained on openai models, so it should be somehow similar to Chinese models in terms of performance and cost!
Ok speed (202.7 tok/s) and value (1.25 -> 2.50) look great, with pretty decent intelligence.
The problem with speed is that they usually are very fast for first few weeks and then suddenly much slower. They did such trick when they advertised Grok 4 fast ( dropped from 200 tps to 60tps)
Wow. That is a big drop.
Grok 4.1 is still 110tps. The only other model that comes close is Gemini at 85tps.
202.7 tok/s is only OK speed? Which providers are you using that are significantly better than that?
for reference, it's the 2nd fastest model tracked in the "Highlights" section of https://artificialanalysis.ai/
Yes, it's incredibly fast. Openrouter is clocking 60 tokens per second, which is on par with the likes of sonnet, opus, GPT 5.5.
That section misses Cerebras and Groq which are up to 5x faster.
Very different tech and limitations though so wouldn’t make sense to compare 1:1 I think
What are the limitations ?
When looking at the benchmarks, this model seems to be really close to Kimi K2.6 in terms of intelligence and pricing, hitting that sweet spot. It does also have a higher AA-Omniscience index, which is something kimi and other open models lack in. Curious to see how pleasant it is to use.
I’ll eat my hat if it even comes close to Kimi
How would you like it? Well done?
What about spending $41 million on each model's tokens and seeing the value gain? be it efficiency gain in factory work or energy savings in austere battlescape hunting.
Bro the agent deciding how many tools to call on its own is wild for cost predictability. Who's approving that bill?
Despite their attrition, this combined with their cursor partnership is likely going to make them competitive in coding agents soon.
All those plans from providers should be sliders – prepay more, get more in return.
Very competitive price for the speed and intelligence being offered!
The tok/s stat is interesting. Since the dominant constraint on inference speed is hardware, it suggests X purchased far more compute than was really needed to serve the demand for their models.
Expensive miscalculation.
Didn't a bunch of hardware that was destined for Tesla get redirected to xAI? I'm sure I remember something like that.
Yep! Why his shareholders in Tesla abide by this kind of thing is beyond me, but he often mixes resources from completely unrelated companies: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/06/04/elon-musk-told-nvidia-to...
Yay, free tokens. I don't know why but grok always seems good fast in the free token phase and after that degrades.
People are going to hate on Grok because of Musk. However, I do hope they're successful in making a powerful model. We desperately need more competition. I want cheap subsidized AI plans.
I hope Meta finally comes around, too. I want those sweet, sweet billionaire subsidized tokens.
Pardon me for feeling icky when giving money to the guy who is obsessed with "white replacement".
I am old and cynical - I have no illusions, but I also have my limits and a semblance of moral compass. We, as citizens, can vote with ballots, but also with money.
And, no, I am not someone who keeps boycotting companies for every little grievance (was on the receiving end of that nonsense twice).
Never used grok, never will.
Your $200 claude code subscription is a cheap subsidized plan.
You're getting like 40k in tokens a year for $2400. A whole lotta people are about to be sad when they realize they bet their competency on that lasting forever.
That's my point. While the billionares fight each other over who has the best model, this will continue for a while. At least, I think so.
Credit where it's due, Grok is currently the only model that has near-realtime updates from/access to a waterhose of data, and is casually used by regular people all the time.
I don't think there's a single thread on Xitter whete people don't delegate some question to grok.
(There's a separate conversation of failure modes, and whether it's a good thing, and how much control Elon had when he doesn't like Grok's "woke" responses)
Pelican riding a bike here: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/f6de26bd0d0817e056...
(ran this on arena.ai direct chat and also tried to write this gist inspired by how simon writes his gists about pelicans)
Edit: just realized that I made pelican riding a bike instead of bicycle, which now makes sense as to why it hardened the bicycle to look tankier, going to compare this with pelican riding a bicycle if anybody else shares the pelican riding a bicycle.
https://simonwillison.net/2025/Nov/13/training-for-pelicans-...
You should probably come up with variations, like a beaver riding a scooter or something, just to see what's what :)
Thanks I have generated both
beaver riding a scooter: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/f6de26bd0d0817e056...
pelican riding a bicycle: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/f6de26bd0d0817e056...
Personal opinion but the beaver one looks especially bad as compared to pelicans. Can we be for sure that this model of grok-4.3 hasn't been trained on pelican. Simonw in blog-post says that he will try with other creatures so I hope he does that but it does feel to me as the model/xAI is trying to cheat, Hope Simonw tests it out more.
Edit: Also added turtle riding a scooter, something which literally has images online or heck even teenage mutant ninja turtles and I thought that it would be able to pass this but it wasn't even able to generate this: https://gist.github.com/SerJaimeLannister/f6de26bd0d0817e056...
This literally looks more avocado than turtle. Perhaps this could be a bug from arena.ai or something else too, not sure but at this point waiting for simon's analysis.
We can never be sure of course, but I think this is a very strong indication that pelican riding a bike is indeed going into the training dataset.
Thanks for generating those!
Is this now a reliable product or will it still produce errors?
https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/grok-4-3
This puts Sonnet 4.6 above Opus 4.6 in the coding index.. kinda hard to trust those numbers.
(Also it puts Opus 4.7 universally above Opus 4.6, and I may be wrong but this doesn't seem to match the experience of most/many/some people. I think it's widely recognized that Anthropic is severely lacking compute and Opus 4.7 is a costs saving measure)
What I’ve usually seen is 4.7 -> 4.5 -> 4.6 in terms of quality. Though 4.7 seems to hallucinate more than before.
Anthropic themselves have (had?) this thing where Opus is used for planning and Sonnet for coding.
I thought this was a costs saving measure: we plan with the frontier model / SOTA, then code with something cheaper.
But then, Anthropic employees don't have rate limits, right?
Does numbers don't look exciting at all? I may have gotten spoiled by releases from Qwen, Kimi and Z.ai who keep closing the gap between closed weight SOTA models and open weight. From my experience, Grok is only useful for one thing, and that's looking up things for you and gathering a consensus on topics. That's it.
Update, I noted that Grok 4.3 is in the "Most attractive quadrant", that's cool! It is also in the top 5 highest in "AA-Omniscience Index", good! Really good.
What's with the charts and numbers?
It says #1 for speed but then in the chart it's #2. Also says #10 for intelligence but then it's #7 in the chart.
What an exciting game we're playing, where the most popular leaderboard is completely made up and the stakes are in the trillions.
I lost the trust in them when they added the racist "what about killing of Boers in south Africa" thing to their system prompt.
No way am I going to use a model where the backing has such blatantly obvious brain washing goals.
It is unbelievable that this is a controversial opinion.
If there was any model I wouldn’t trust, it wouldn’t be the ones from China, it would be the one from Elon Musk
Thankfully it's not an either / or, I don't trust any models. This is a healthy attitude to have because you shouldn't trust anyone on the internet either, especially when it comes to specific subjects.
That's definitely a good approach. Although I get a little concerned about the resources put into convincing people that models (and especially Grok) are accurate. For example, X's "fact checked by Grok" approvals, which I've unfortunately heard people reference as meaningful.
Politically motivated models can still do a lot of damage that affects me (or "have a lot of impact" depending on whether you like the politics or not) even if I don't engage with them myself.
I don't trust this. But by not trusting it I am inherently trusting it. But by trusting it I shouldn't.
This project is a gigantic waste of resources, it’s fine tuned on politics of the CEO, was used for CSAM generation and just sucks overall
The resource waste he's talking about is horrendous, read more here: https://time.com/7308925/elon-musk-memphis-ai-data-center/
It’s a model made for 36% of Americans. The rest of the world can’t care less.
Considering how few Americans there are and how little of that 39% even uses technology, that's what 20 million people at a maximum?
That seems like a decently sized market. Maybe not for an AI lab though.
Sure it's a good market for a normal company. For a social media company it's pretty isolated and really limits the products that can come out. But their current selling points: propaganda, csam, and psychosis engagement are quite strong amongst that population.
I like that there are models with divergent politics; the status quo being creepy corporate left silicon valley is not healthy or pleasant to interact with.
Even with grock it's only broadening things to creepy corporate right of silicon valley.
Silicon Valley...left? Huh?
How do the grok models fare in coding challenges to say gpt 5.5 and opus 4.6/4.7?
I hate giving Elon any money. The man is a net negative to society but … if the models are objectively better then logically I must no?
Logic can't tell you what your objectives should be, only how to achieve them.