When I lived in Germany, I had an apartment in the vicinity of three tiny arthouse theaters. I used to go there all the time by myself because you could basically walk to all three of them. Saw a lot of movies I would have never seen otherwise, most of which I don't remember at all.
The theaters were never full. So it was basically just like watching a movie in your own living room. Yeah, except maybe for the handful of strangers that were there to watch with you.
Back in the heyday, I used to work in a startup devoted to the cinema world, where with one app you could buy tickets for all cinemas - even those that did not "officially" support it.
Among them were arthouse theaters in Hamburg, which I often used for testing, as most of the time reserving a few seats would not matter as they would be empty, at least during the day. Some of them had projections of old movies, and I was like "if I lived there, I'd go every day".
Ironically, now I live between 2 art cinemas in my city and rarely go to any of them :)
Here in Amsterdam (and the rest of the Netherlands) all the arthouse theaters have joined forces with the Cineville subscription [0], which gives you unlimited access for I think 25 euros a month. I get a subscription for a few months sometimes and you wind up seeing so many cool films
Cinemas around here have started showing old films and I have rediscovered the joy of going to the movies, whether it's Some Like It Hot or Suicide Club.
I remember I went to a small showing once as a kid. It was just our group and 1 lady in the theater.
We got to small talk and the lady mentioned she had once been the only customer for a showing and told the projectionist that she didn’t want to be a bother and could come back and another day.
The projectionist had apparently replied that it was no bother - they would roll the movie even if no one showed up!
Im assuming (though rare) it’s the same with flights. They keep the schedule for movies in case someone joins half hour late. Plenty of people visit my the cinema for all kinds of reasons other than the content (like sleeping in the AC among other things that come to your mind). Keeping the movie going rather than waiting for someone to show up and make it awkward would probably be better for customer service too.
Well it's very different for flights, they need the plane at the destination so they have to fly it. With movies it's probably just simpler to start the movie than to try to manage the logistics of not starting it, just to save 2 hours on the projection bulb.
One of my student jobs was to transport film spools to theaters. They would arrive at my door in a box, I would walk them to the cinema on a small trolley and spend 2-3 hours in the projection rooms. The reels were spliced on site by a technician, projected, cut again and I transported them back home where they would be picked up again.
The job was less to transport the spools, but to supervise that there was no copying happening.
This was late 200x-ish, before digital protection became widespread iirc.
I once flew on a flight from ORD to ROC where I was the only passenger. It was very, very weird to be in a big empty cabin all by myself. The flight attendant just came and did the safety briefing sitting next to me. I asked her why they didn't just cancel the flight, and she said the plane had to be in ROC for the next morning anyway. This was in the 1990s though. I've never encountered anything like that since.
This makes sense if someone bought a ticket and didn't showed up, but what if none was sold? They could just stop selling after a certain time and be sure nobody will be there late.
When I worked at a small cinema we would set up the movie to run regardless, because sometimes you would get late-showers buying tickets at the front desk and it's much more trouble to have to speed-start a movie for the projectionist than to be able to do it at the regular schedule. If you start it too late without manually remembering to forward past ads and trailers, you can also risk spilling into the next timeslot causing a pileup of delays. It's far simpler to just start the movie for an empty hall, and let customers join after it's started if they want to.
I'm unsure exactly how the deals with local businesses running ads before the movies are set up, but I could imagine that you're supposed to be running the ads an agreed upon number of times, regardless of ticket sales.
Sometimes in the daytime we would get retirees who would watch a movie and basically loiter around, and occasionally ask if they could catch the end of a different movie running in an empty hall. You'd sometimes let a regular crash an empty screening like this if they bought an extra snack or coffee for it or something.
Studio contracts: The movies are delivered digitally on encrypted hard disks and when playing there is a ton of telemetry sent back to the studios. They are watching the theaters like its 1984. Studios have contracts indicating the play will play X times no more and probably no less(else studios might hold back the good movies). AMC keeps it simple. Play the movie even if no one shows up. AMC in particular uses laser projectors now so who cares. They ain't burning out any projector bulb.
That must vary by theater, or perhaps practices change from time to time. My brother worked at a movie theater in high school (20 years ago), and the theater he worked would not play movies if nobody had bought a ticket. He told me they would occasionally catch people trying to sneak free movies that way - the projectionist would notice someone in the theater for a time which was going to be canceled, call the box office to confirm if they had sold a ticket, and if not they would get a manager to escort the person out.
I remember walking in late to a movie with my wife and noticing that there was nobody there except us. We bought the tickets on site, so the show must have started before we went in, despite no tickets having been sold.
It makes no sense from a classical economics perspective to keep the theater empty. Even if no one is buying at the break-even price, it can make sense to sell below cost just to recoup some of the investment - and adjust the investment in the future, of course.
Now, in reality there are second-hand effects, of course - like people getting adjusted to the below-cost ticket prices and being even less incentivized to buy at the normal price.
Do enough people buy tickets in advance now that this really indicates anything of value? I'm old and have never pre-purchased a movie ticket in my life. I assume a lot of people do, but the few times I've been to the movies lately, it seems people are buying tickets at the theater.
I'm "old" (mid-40s) and cannot remember the last time I didn't pre-purchase a movie ticket. The movie theater I go to the most (Alamo Drafthouse in San Francisco) rarely has anyone in line at the box office when I walk through there. That box office is usually only staffed by one person, which should tell us something about how many people need in-person service.
I'm finding that more and more, when I impulsively go to the theater and try to buy tickets at the door... I always find the only tickets available are horrible, like in the front row to the side. You want like F-6 and F-7 and get A-2 and B-2.
And if I even accept this, the people in the choice seats invariably show up right when all the trailers are wrapping up.
so - people buy tickets ahead of time, and it might be the only way to watch it from a reasonable seat.
This probably doesn't apply to off-hours like tuesday afternoon or whatever.
As European, I can tell that it depends on the kind of cinema, and country.
My experience, being discussed in another thread, is that only big commercial multiplex do it, many small cinemas with more alternative content, usually don't do assigned seats, only ticket reservations.
Yes, it's been a thing for at least a decade, I imagine it helps with pre-sales online, though it may just be offered as a convenience. It really does help keep the movie from unexpectedly being a lousy experience; if you're stuck in a crappy seat, or your family can't sit together, it's because you picked those seats. As someone else mentioned, it also allows them to bring you dinner and provide that upsell as well.
Even our small independent theater in town has reserved seats, some of which are couches.
When I grew up in LA 20+ years ago, seating was way more casual. Now everywhere seems to want assigned seating. I think this is in part because so many theater chains now offer a "premium" dining experience. It's yet another reason I rarely go to theaters anymore, on top of most of the film offerings being crap.
You can find both kinds, in europe especially the cut is very clear, commercial cinemas ALWAYS have assigned sitting. The kind you see at malls and have the Hollywood rotation of marvel shit movies.
Then you have smaller cinemas with indie movies, european movie festival rotation, etc, and many of those in at least 4 or 5 countries in Europe I can confirm do NOT have assigned sitting.
Here in Oslo, Norway I only know of the local cinematheque which doesn't do reserved seats. All commercial theaters have reserved seats, even for the small screens with just a dozen or so seats. Been so as long as I can remember, so several decades.
Dresden is truly blessed with cinemas and has four European Network cinemas. Three of those have assigned seating, though none do price discrimination based on where you sit. Culturally the assigned seating isn’t taken very seriously in those four cinemas, though, to the point where staff in one cinema sometimes tells visitors that they can sit somewhere else if they want to. In practice we still try to get seats where we want to sit and stick to them (front/middle, away from other people), though if people come in and sit right behind us we might change rows.
With new ticketing systems and online booking being introduced I think there has been a shift towards assigned seating. I remember the first time I was in a Dresden European Network cinema (Schauburg in 2015, that’s the oldest cinema in Dresden, 1927) and there either being no assigned seating or a seat printed on the ticket that no one cared about. We also weren’t asked where we wanted to sit. That has changed with a new ticketing system and now we are always asked about where we want to sit.
I think these ticketing systems come with assigned seating and that’s also a factor in assigned seating being introduced.
Notably, the one cinema that doesn’t have assigned seating also doesn’t offer online booking or reservations at all.
The four big multiplex cinemas in the city have assigned seating and do price discrimination based on where you sit – so it’s taken somewhat more seriously there.
So, yeah, my guess would be that the role online ticketing and the respective software/service/devices those cinemas use for that do all play a role in what role assigned seating plays and those can also trigger a cultural shift from sit where you want to assigned seating. (I have vivid childhood memories of my hometown long before online booking with price discrimination sections but no assigned seating in cinemas.)
I don't recall having been to any cinema in denmark ever that did not do assigned seats. They won't check if nobody complains, but is is printed on the ticket.
You sure about the 90s? Not saying it was impossible, but must have been extremely rare. Arclight was one of the first theaters to do assigned seats in 2002. AMC only started trialing in 2008, but didn't start rolling it out until 2016 in NYC.
Totally possible, was through a central phone number in The Netherlands called "BelBios" ("CallCinema"). You were guided through the different movies and showtimes, pressed the numbers, and got a booking code. You then went to the cinema, provided your booking code and paid.
Do people really just show up and hope for the best anymore?
The "box office" is not even really a thing anymore at most theaters. And the single person you talk to inside that is the "box office" just uses the same system you can reserve seats yourself on your own time?
Pretty much every theater is reserved seating these days. Why would I risk showing up last minute on a whim and end up in a horrible seat near the front of the screen?
In the small town where I live we have a small cinema with three screens. They always start the movie at the advertised time - no adverts, just a few trailers in the preceding 10 minutes. You can book online, but I usually just walk in and buy a ticket at the desk. The seats aren't assigned, so you can pick whichever you like.
Occasionally I have a "private screening" where I'm the only one in the auditorium. The most recent example was "The Mummy". I hadn't fully thought throught the implications of watching a horror movie alone in the middle of a darkened 65-seat auditorium!
There's another town a few miles away where a similar cinema has both assigned seating and 20 minutes of adverts before the movie.
Mostly because unless it is a really desirable movie, hoping for the best has an expected outcome close to the best.I am a planner in most things, but for movies, it often simply does not matter.
Last time I was in a US theater the tickets where not numbered and you could sit anywhere. There was no point in pre purchasing a ticket because if you wanted a good seat you needed to show up early either way.
In Switzerland the seats have always been numbered and even if the cinema is empty people wouldn't dare move into another seat. People do show up right before the film starts and try to avoid the ads. Some also hang in the lobby until the film actually starts.
I'm the same way, as I'm terrible at scheduling and often don't arrive on time for things I book in advance. So, I'll tend to show up at the theater and see whatever looks good that's coming up soon. But, I get the impression a lot of people do buy in advance these days.
But, I love the idea of a theater almost entirely to myself.
I haven’t bought a seat at the theater in over a decade
And the online process shows you which seats are already filled and I base my decision on that when there is assigned seating. One thing peculiar is that the theatres are not often as filled as the seat map shows, makes me think that an even newer generation of the movie ticket subscribers (AMC A-List) are reserving seats and changing plans
Quite a bit in the early showing for good movies. Project Heil Mary has continued to sell all the good seats out and I’m bad at planning ahead for entertainment. It usually isn’t obvious because most of the movies have been atrocious in the last several years.
There are times I would agree with you, and times I wouldn't.
If the theater is full of people talking during the movie or lighting the place up while they’re on their phone (in either case ignoring the movie), then I’d rather be alone.
It seems like more times than not, this is the case.
In a previous life, I would go to a lot of art movies, often matinees or monday or etc. Sometimes there was one guy who was working the box-office, the snackbar, and the projection. I was glad he had a job.
Are you American? US cinema culture seems very different to the UK (the only other place I’ve been). In the US it seems much more the norm to react to the film, in the UK generally folks sit in silence.
Yes this is what people get wrong about "home theater". Its not just the tech, its the experience of watching something with others, amplifying the emotions.
Man, seeing The Avengers (2012) in a PACKED theater full of excited Marvel fans was something else. The deafening roar completely drowned out the Hulk's line "puny god".
I used to frequent the brisbane regent cinema precisely because it was reliably empty. The franchise kept it running because having a really nice prestige theatre was good for their brand, but compared to their other sites it was revenue neutral at best.
One of the joys of having Moviepass in that brief period where it was very cheap but still worked was going to random late-night showings of stuff I'd have never otherwise seen, sometimes being the only person there.
Of course you can still do that with the surviving "all you can eat" plans, but they're way more expensive and aren't quite as generous.
On the one hand Its fun to watch movies alone on a big screen. My area of NJ apparently could care less about movies like Knock Down The House(Biography of AOC and other house candidates), Navalny (Movie about the murdered politician opposing Putin), The Imitation Machine: Movie about Alan Turing or Last Night in Soho (A wonderful Edgar Wright thriller)
On the other hand, I feel sad that no one in my region seems to care enough about these topics. Instead the latest superhero movie is next door packed to the brim and is so loud it rattles the walls to the room playing my quiet documentary with only me sitting inside watching it. :/
I have seen too many video projects that were supposed to be non fictional either have fictional material or a misleading slant such that I would not consider it a good use of my time.
This site will probably defeat its purpose. You discover an empty showing and are excited to have your own "private theater", but thanks to this site, somebody else will have the same idea and you'll both have to share your private theater.
I’ve been to a few showings by myself back in the moviepass days. It was really nice, I’d wait until a movie was basically at the very end of its run and watch whatever was playing. I can’t stand others making noise, too distracting.
I have been quite a heavy patron of AMC theaters these past few years since COVID ended. I have seen A LOT of movies play to empty theaters. I used to actually peek at many of the rooms when I left my movie and so many were downright empty.
Its the norm and its probably why their stock is trading at $1.45 as of this writing.
Its a dead (not dying, dead) entertainment option. When you are competing for the same 24 hrs in a day with TV, Youtube, Gaming, Streaming, TikTok, Instagram and many others the theater is bottom of the barrel for young people today.
And don't tell me its because people are disrespectful or the commercials are too long. These are a problem but Alamo Drafthouse tried to tackle this and they ended up in bankruptcy. AMC would also be bankrupt today but it's saving grace was the meme stock frenzy they had a few years back. Probably bought them a few more years but that ride might be coming to an end.
Currently they fill the rooms for the pop movies like old established franchises but that only comes along every couple weeks at the most and the rest of the time the place is not really busy. This is a bit different in the big cities but AMC has overextended themselves with too many locations in the rural and suburban US.
...Also this app is not displaying accurate data (I assume they are pulling from AMC's API). My local theater is listing no results and I cross checked and there are movies currently listed that have 0 seats booked so the app is counting incorrectly for at least one theater.
EDIT: After I wrote this, the site auto updated with new data. Now I see some screenings but it is still inaccurate because it is still missing movies from that theater...maybe they are scraping instead of using the API? This is a simple problem if using the API (I wrote my own home cooked app): just iterate through all theater ids, find the ones with 0 bookings and display that list.
I want to enjoy the movie theater experience. It should be a better screen than the one in my home. It should be a better audio setup, with full surround sound. It should be great, a premium experience.
The last few movies I’ve seen in theaters have not been that. Two of the last 3 movies I’ve seen had audio mixing problems, and dialogue was inaudible in some scenes. (I heard this got fixed later for one of the movies) In all of them, I could hear bass from the adjacent theaters in some scenes. In the last two movies I went to see, both had someone in the audience bring an intermittently crying baby to the movie.
Im done with watching movies in theaters. It’s a better experience to watch at home, with headphones, a blanket, and the ability to pause for bathroom breaks.
Sounds like you should be visiting Alamo Drafthouse. They take these things extremely seriously and are for the real fans. Here is their ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3eeC2lJZs
Unfortunately since they already filed for bankruptcy a few years back they have had to cut costs and so their system for ordering food replaced (from pen and paper collected and an usher quietly brings you your food to QR code with...a cellphone) people are recently concerned that this has reduced their legendary quality. They still take audio and picture quality very seriously in my experience.
Also where are you located? LA and NYC have legendary theaters that are truly a special treat. Its harder to replicate that in various states but there are still some states trying (ex. NJ being the actual birthplace of the American film industry has a few excellent theaters scattered throughout that dont tolerate poor quality/talkers)
If your story is from AMC theaters just know that you are visiting the Mcdonalds of movie theaters.
Besides the ordering experience, I also feel like the food at the Alamo has gone downhill. It's not bad or anything, but it used to be legit good. Now it's just alright.
It's not the ads, but they're not helping. I still like to go to theaters, but am thinking if not going anymore because I can't really take it. I don't go to AMC since not in the US, but where I go you can't even skip them because you never know how long it will be. I sat once for literally 40 minutes. It's also crazy expensive. So they need to do these things to stay afloat, but they're driving away the last people that still want to go.
It's just dead in its current form, you're right about that. To make it work they need to reinvent themselves. But it's hard.
I don't disagree with you at all. Ads suck. But that ship sailed a long time ago. Just to provide some more context to AMC.
They are a US national chain and they don't run "commercials" just lots of trailers. They have recently announced that they have extended the trailer runtime from 20-25 mins to 35-40 mins. While this is frustrating they always indicate in the app which movies have the trailers (most do) and the approx length. As a result, patron who want to skip the trailers use the app for guidance and just arrive +35 mins after the showtime. Example: https://i.imgur.com/bsVf6AE.png
Given this system, I dont think AMC has really lost patrons because of the ads since everyone who hates them know exactly how long to delay their entrance to the movie room. It really is the other factor I mentioned (they are not compelling enough most of the time vs other entertainment).
One more aspect I forgot to mention is concession prices. Small popcorn is ~10$, small drink is ~7$ so ~17$ for basic concessions and that does not include ticket price ranging between 5$ on Tuesday special deals for standard definition all the way to $27.99+ for premium screen. If you are going to the movies you might as well watch it on their best screen. It gets expensive if you are bringing family. The reason for this pricing is the studio. They actually take a majority of the ticket revenue and they refuse to lower their percentage of ticket prices on the marquee titles (and also require 2 week minimum contracts in the premium screens even if the movie is a stinker)
The theaters are essentially just popcorn/soda vendors who just happen to show movies on the side.
They do also run actual commercials if you're crazy enough to show up before the showtime.
AMC is also interesting because even in the "real" trailer period they have a long ad for AMC itself but also for Coke, then another for themselves telling you to sign up for the loyalty programs, then another for themselves with Nicole Kidman in the theater with her suit with the silver pinstripes. A little thing for the theater is normal but they're going way overboard with it and it's hard to believe it's really effective.
It really seems like a great use case for dynamic pricing.
For $27.99 I can usually get MLB tickets people are dumping last minute (face value starts a few dollars higher) and can always get AAA baseball tickets for less than that.
That dynamism to the pricing helps a lot of people get into the door to those events and I'm sure it helps them milk additional profit out of very interesting games.
I know you say it's the studios setting the price. Why do they seem indifferent to the impending bankruptcy of theaters?
Well $27.99 is for IMAX/Dolby/other premium format. Thats the hook I guess. People do shell out but only for the big blockbuster. The other movies are like the stuff you can watch using your Netflix account so a lot of non franchise movies have shifted direct to Netflix.
>I know you say it's the studios setting the price. Why do they seem indifferent to the impending bankruptcy of theaters?
They are pushing their streaming platforms and using the content as just a hook for other more lucrative sources of revenue(ie. Disney and theme parks). Do they really need the theaters now that people are hooked on streaming?
Yes, that's what I meant with crazy expensive, mostly the concessions. The tickets I am ok with, I am in th end going there for the big screen and experience, not to eat crappy food. I go with my kids, and it's just painful. We watched Mario 2 recently, and because my youngest didn't watch the first one, we watched that one at home first. 3.99 to rent 4k and 2.50 for popcorn and drinks for three kids. Puts things in perspective.
AMC have taken to just saying outright that everything will start 25-30 minutes after the posted time. Which is interesting, I guess they're trying to blunt the negative effect of the long trailers but I'm sure the advertisers don't like it.
Well, my experience is that people start eating when the lights go out but are nearly finished with the popcorn when the ads and trailers end and the movie starts.
Most people. There's always that one person near you who eats for most of the movie.
Anyways, the point is that with the advent of big home TVs, streaming, I've virtually stopped going to movie theaters. The experience is always subpar every time I go due to eating noise and talking.
Movie theaters are reinventing themselves in various ways, and I’m unsure if it’s working, but some of it is creative.
Around here, films from Bollywood show in Telugu, Hindi, Gujarati languages. There are family films in Spanish (those aren’t bad dubs, but parallel scripts and A-list voice actors.) Want to watch a Studio Ghibli film? Here’s the timetable for dubbed; here’s a timetable for subtitles!
There are live video-game tournaments. There are premieres for live operas and symphony orchestra performances that are simulcast around a region.
There are Christian groups who go in to support a film, and they can turn those into fundraisers and evangelization activity.
The auditoriums can be rented out for special events. Big birthday, Kindergarten graduation, Quinceañeras, etc. They will support teleconferencing and businesses can hold seminars or all-hands meetings there.
I suppose that all of these schemes were harmed by the pandemic and lockdowns, but the advertising is still there, and the Hindus are still showing up on public transit.
I think you are seeing a slice of the full picture. This app is not accurately showing all empty screens. While all of those are ideas that are increasing viewership there is still so much dead weight. Whether these things offset the dead weight I dont know. All I know is AMC is trading at $1.45 today so it does not look great.
When I lived in Germany, I had an apartment in the vicinity of three tiny arthouse theaters. I used to go there all the time by myself because you could basically walk to all three of them. Saw a lot of movies I would have never seen otherwise, most of which I don't remember at all.
The theaters were never full. So it was basically just like watching a movie in your own living room. Yeah, except maybe for the handful of strangers that were there to watch with you.
Is this maybe in Hamburg? :)
Back in the heyday, I used to work in a startup devoted to the cinema world, where with one app you could buy tickets for all cinemas - even those that did not "officially" support it.
Among them were arthouse theaters in Hamburg, which I often used for testing, as most of the time reserving a few seats would not matter as they would be empty, at least during the day. Some of them had projections of old movies, and I was like "if I lived there, I'd go every day".
Ironically, now I live between 2 art cinemas in my city and rarely go to any of them :)
Here in Amsterdam (and the rest of the Netherlands) all the arthouse theaters have joined forces with the Cineville subscription [0], which gives you unlimited access for I think 25 euros a month. I get a subscription for a few months sometimes and you wind up seeing so many cool films
[0] https://cineville.nl
yorck unlimited made living in berlin 10x as exciting
but you could always be sure that the old lady loudly crunching on every.single.crisp. was there in the showing as well
Pros: get to watch movies alone.
Cons: have to watch arthouse.
Arthouse is the only thing worth watching nowadays as the others seem to only rechew the same crud. Change my mind.
Cinemas around here have started showing old films and I have rediscovered the joy of going to the movies, whether it's Some Like It Hot or Suicide Club.
This is the issue I have with the big screen, there's just nothing I want to watch.
Meanwhile if I watch at home then there's half a century of classics that I haven't gotten around to watching yet.
Cud, I think, is the thing that gets rechewed.
I've seen Marvel movies and I think "crud" was the better word choice.
I remember I went to a small showing once as a kid. It was just our group and 1 lady in the theater.
We got to small talk and the lady mentioned she had once been the only customer for a showing and told the projectionist that she didn’t want to be a bother and could come back and another day.
The projectionist had apparently replied that it was no bother - they would roll the movie even if no one showed up!
Im assuming (though rare) it’s the same with flights. They keep the schedule for movies in case someone joins half hour late. Plenty of people visit my the cinema for all kinds of reasons other than the content (like sleeping in the AC among other things that come to your mind). Keeping the movie going rather than waiting for someone to show up and make it awkward would probably be better for customer service too.
Well it's very different for flights, they need the plane at the destination so they have to fly it. With movies it's probably just simpler to start the movie than to try to manage the logistics of not starting it, just to save 2 hours on the projection bulb.
These days that's probably true, but when a projectionist needed to roll the film and babysit the equipment I doubt it would be worthwhile.
Not to mention that film rolls do wear out overtime.
One of my student jobs was to transport film spools to theaters. They would arrive at my door in a box, I would walk them to the cinema on a small trolley and spend 2-3 hours in the projection rooms. The reels were spliced on site by a technician, projected, cut again and I transported them back home where they would be picked up again.
The job was less to transport the spools, but to supervise that there was no copying happening.
This was late 200x-ish, before digital protection became widespread iirc.
Wow. Was there any premier viewings on the spools you moved?
> different for flights
Maybe. Depends.
I’m sure I’ve heard of the low cost carriers cancelling flights that are under-sold at the last minute.
Would make sense if the destination has fewer tickets sold from there.
During COVID a lot of empty flights flew because otherwise the airline could lose the gate slots.
I once flew on a flight from ORD to ROC where I was the only passenger. It was very, very weird to be in a big empty cabin all by myself. The flight attendant just came and did the safety briefing sitting next to me. I asked her why they didn't just cancel the flight, and she said the plane had to be in ROC for the next morning anyway. This was in the 1990s though. I've never encountered anything like that since.
This makes sense if someone bought a ticket and didn't showed up, but what if none was sold? They could just stop selling after a certain time and be sure nobody will be there late.
When I worked at a small cinema we would set up the movie to run regardless, because sometimes you would get late-showers buying tickets at the front desk and it's much more trouble to have to speed-start a movie for the projectionist than to be able to do it at the regular schedule. If you start it too late without manually remembering to forward past ads and trailers, you can also risk spilling into the next timeslot causing a pileup of delays. It's far simpler to just start the movie for an empty hall, and let customers join after it's started if they want to.
I'm unsure exactly how the deals with local businesses running ads before the movies are set up, but I could imagine that you're supposed to be running the ads an agreed upon number of times, regardless of ticket sales.
Sometimes in the daytime we would get retirees who would watch a movie and basically loiter around, and occasionally ask if they could catch the end of a different movie running in an empty hall. You'd sometimes let a regular crash an empty screening like this if they bought an extra snack or coffee for it or something.
Studio contracts: The movies are delivered digitally on encrypted hard disks and when playing there is a ton of telemetry sent back to the studios. They are watching the theaters like its 1984. Studios have contracts indicating the play will play X times no more and probably no less(else studios might hold back the good movies). AMC keeps it simple. Play the movie even if no one shows up. AMC in particular uses laser projectors now so who cares. They ain't burning out any projector bulb.
When I was a kid I wanted to go see The Avengers (the o.g. one, from 1998).
I had to go to the cinema 3 times, because they would not do a projection for less than 5 people.
That must vary by theater, or perhaps practices change from time to time. My brother worked at a movie theater in high school (20 years ago), and the theater he worked would not play movies if nobody had bought a ticket. He told me they would occasionally catch people trying to sneak free movies that way - the projectionist would notice someone in the theater for a time which was going to be canceled, call the box office to confirm if they had sold a ticket, and if not they would get a manager to escort the person out.
I remember walking in late to a movie with my wife and noticing that there was nobody there except us. We bought the tickets on site, so the show must have started before we went in, despite no tickets having been sold.
To me this suggests that theater’s are at least partially incorrectly pricing things which explains why they are struggling.
But aren't they pricing based on how much it costs to show the film?
Which in turn is how much the studios and distributors pay to make/market the film?
Which is in turn driven by costs...
Which are basically large bets on if a piece of art will have mass appeal.
It makes no sense from a classical economics perspective to keep the theater empty. Even if no one is buying at the break-even price, it can make sense to sell below cost just to recoup some of the investment - and adjust the investment in the future, of course.
Now, in reality there are second-hand effects, of course - like people getting adjusted to the below-cost ticket prices and being even less incentivized to buy at the normal price.
Do enough people buy tickets in advance now that this really indicates anything of value? I'm old and have never pre-purchased a movie ticket in my life. I assume a lot of people do, but the few times I've been to the movies lately, it seems people are buying tickets at the theater.
I'm "old" (mid-40s) and cannot remember the last time I didn't pre-purchase a movie ticket. The movie theater I go to the most (Alamo Drafthouse in San Francisco) rarely has anyone in line at the box office when I walk through there. That box office is usually only staffed by one person, which should tell us something about how many people need in-person service.
I'm finding that more and more, when I impulsively go to the theater and try to buy tickets at the door... I always find the only tickets available are horrible, like in the front row to the side. You want like F-6 and F-7 and get A-2 and B-2.
And if I even accept this, the people in the choice seats invariably show up right when all the trailers are wrapping up.
so - people buy tickets ahead of time, and it might be the only way to watch it from a reasonable seat.
This probably doesn't apply to off-hours like tuesday afternoon or whatever.
wait... I don't think I've ever experienced assigned seats in a movie theatre. Is that a thing?
I've never been to a theater without assigned seats. Maybe it's a regional difference?
Regional where...? Never seen this in the Northeast.
Outside North America just about every country I’ve ever lived in or visited had assigned movie ticket seats.
As European, I can tell that it depends on the kind of cinema, and country.
My experience, being discussed in another thread, is that only big commercial multiplex do it, many small cinemas with more alternative content, usually don't do assigned seats, only ticket reservations.
And in some places there are so few movie theaters that, at least on weekends, you have to buy days in advance or you might as well stay home.
It's shifted a lot in the past few years: AMC has assigned seating in most (all?) theaters, for instance. Our regional theater, Harkins, same.
Personally, I like being able to select the exact seats and pre-order popcorn and soda and just have it show up to me right as the trailers end.
I'm also in the northeast (Europe). It is quite normal to have assigned seats.
Yes, it's been a thing for at least a decade, I imagine it helps with pre-sales online, though it may just be offered as a convenience. It really does help keep the movie from unexpectedly being a lousy experience; if you're stuck in a crappy seat, or your family can't sit together, it's because you picked those seats. As someone else mentioned, it also allows them to bring you dinner and provide that upsell as well.
Even our small independent theater in town has reserved seats, some of which are couches.
> it's been a thing for at least a decade
Maybe in fancy theaters, but in most places it started during covid (and just never stopped)
When I grew up in LA 20+ years ago, seating was way more casual. Now everywhere seems to want assigned seating. I think this is in part because so many theater chains now offer a "premium" dining experience. It's yet another reason I rarely go to theaters anymore, on top of most of the film offerings being crap.
It’s the only way I’ve ever seen movie tickets sold outside of North America anywhere.
You can find both kinds, in europe especially the cut is very clear, commercial cinemas ALWAYS have assigned sitting. The kind you see at malls and have the Hollywood rotation of marvel shit movies.
Then you have smaller cinemas with indie movies, european movie festival rotation, etc, and many of those in at least 4 or 5 countries in Europe I can confirm do NOT have assigned sitting.
I feel like the newer (e.g. post 2010s) theaters with more "premium" comfortable seats tend to assign seats these days. Probably differs by chain.
Yes for higher end theaters like imax and the kind where everyone had a recliner chair
Or just about any movie theater of any kind outside of North America.
If you go up to the box office and ask for "Alt-F4" they will act surprised and confused, but just tell them to type it into their computer
I don’t remember the last time I bought a ticket at the cinema. I like picking my own seats online.
In most European countries you only get reserved seats at big multiplex cinemas, stuff like Cinestar, NOS and so on.
On the European Cinema network [0], reserved seats is a long gone concept.
So not always a given that seats can be reserved online for cinema, depends on ones location.
[0] - https://www.europa-cinemas.org
Here in Oslo, Norway I only know of the local cinematheque which doesn't do reserved seats. All commercial theaters have reserved seats, even for the small screens with just a dozen or so seats. Been so as long as I can remember, so several decades.
So yea, location dependent.
I've been to several European Network cinemas and always gotten reserved seats
Dresden is truly blessed with cinemas and has four European Network cinemas. Three of those have assigned seating, though none do price discrimination based on where you sit. Culturally the assigned seating isn’t taken very seriously in those four cinemas, though, to the point where staff in one cinema sometimes tells visitors that they can sit somewhere else if they want to. In practice we still try to get seats where we want to sit and stick to them (front/middle, away from other people), though if people come in and sit right behind us we might change rows.
With new ticketing systems and online booking being introduced I think there has been a shift towards assigned seating. I remember the first time I was in a Dresden European Network cinema (Schauburg in 2015, that’s the oldest cinema in Dresden, 1927) and there either being no assigned seating or a seat printed on the ticket that no one cared about. We also weren’t asked where we wanted to sit. That has changed with a new ticketing system and now we are always asked about where we want to sit.
I think these ticketing systems come with assigned seating and that’s also a factor in assigned seating being introduced.
Notably, the one cinema that doesn’t have assigned seating also doesn’t offer online booking or reservations at all.
The four big multiplex cinemas in the city have assigned seating and do price discrimination based on where you sit – so it’s taken somewhat more seriously there.
So, yeah, my guess would be that the role online ticketing and the respective software/service/devices those cinemas use for that do all play a role in what role assigned seating plays and those can also trigger a cultural shift from sit where you want to assigned seating. (I have vivid childhood memories of my hometown long before online booking with price discrimination sections but no assigned seating in cinemas.)
I can assert that none of those I usually go have reserved seats, what they do have is reserved tickets.
I guess it depends then.
That's not true, I frequently reserve seats at the "Yorck" cinema chain in Berlin which is part of Europa Cinemas and has seat reservation.
I don't recall having been to any cinema in denmark ever that did not do assigned seats. They won't check if nobody complains, but is is printed on the ticket.
In Switzerland it's a mix. The theater we use most frequently doesn't have assigned seats.
Yeah, whether I go hinges on the seats available.
> I'm old and have never pre-purchased a movie ticket in my life.
I’m old and have always pre-purchased tickets, even in the 90s, as that’s the way to get better seats.
You sure about the 90s? Not saying it was impossible, but must have been extremely rare. Arclight was one of the first theaters to do assigned seats in 2002. AMC only started trialing in 2008, but didn't start rolling it out until 2016 in NYC.
Totally possible, was through a central phone number in The Netherlands called "BelBios" ("CallCinema"). You were guided through the different movies and showtimes, pressed the numbers, and got a booking code. You then went to the cinema, provided your booking code and paid.
In the US perhaps. Seat reservation has been the norm here in Norway since at least the 80s.
Do people really just show up and hope for the best anymore?
The "box office" is not even really a thing anymore at most theaters. And the single person you talk to inside that is the "box office" just uses the same system you can reserve seats yourself on your own time?
Pretty much every theater is reserved seating these days. Why would I risk showing up last minute on a whim and end up in a horrible seat near the front of the screen?
In the small town where I live we have a small cinema with three screens. They always start the movie at the advertised time - no adverts, just a few trailers in the preceding 10 minutes. You can book online, but I usually just walk in and buy a ticket at the desk. The seats aren't assigned, so you can pick whichever you like.
Occasionally I have a "private screening" where I'm the only one in the auditorium. The most recent example was "The Mummy". I hadn't fully thought throught the implications of watching a horror movie alone in the middle of a darkened 65-seat auditorium!
There's another town a few miles away where a similar cinema has both assigned seating and 20 minutes of adverts before the movie.
Mostly because unless it is a really desirable movie, hoping for the best has an expected outcome close to the best.I am a planner in most things, but for movies, it often simply does not matter.
Curious... Unless it's a really desirable movie, I typically won't go to the theater to see it. ;-)
A mix. Prebuying is useful for your Barbie or Oppenheimer. Also good idea for kids birthday parties.
Last time I was in a US theater the tickets where not numbered and you could sit anywhere. There was no point in pre purchasing a ticket because if you wanted a good seat you needed to show up early either way.
In Switzerland the seats have always been numbered and even if the cinema is empty people wouldn't dare move into another seat. People do show up right before the film starts and try to avoid the ads. Some also hang in the lobby until the film actually starts.
My experience in Geneva and Lausanne was certainly a bit more flexible regarding moving around the seats, unless this changed in the last 20 years.
I'm the same way, as I'm terrible at scheduling and often don't arrive on time for things I book in advance. So, I'll tend to show up at the theater and see whatever looks good that's coming up soon. But, I get the impression a lot of people do buy in advance these days.
But, I love the idea of a theater almost entirely to myself.
I assume everyone is using something like MoviePass because it’s way cheaper than paying full price. And they don’t allow you to pre-purchase tickets.
Same here, gen-x, in what concerns cinema, sometimes I do reserve if it is in high demand, but that is about it.
I exclusively buy tickets online, and whatever seats show up as empty online are empty when we show up.
Yeah, unless it's just me, and on a whim, which doesn't happen often, I'd always reserve online.
I haven’t bought a seat at the theater in over a decade
And the online process shows you which seats are already filled and I base my decision on that when there is assigned seating. One thing peculiar is that the theatres are not often as filled as the seat map shows, makes me think that an even newer generation of the movie ticket subscribers (AMC A-List) are reserving seats and changing plans
Quite a bit in the early showing for good movies. Project Heil Mary has continued to sell all the good seats out and I’m bad at planning ahead for entertainment. It usually isn’t obvious because most of the movies have been atrocious in the last several years.
May be I am in minority but I would hate to be alone in entire theater. I enjoy some vibe and people around
There are times I would agree with you, and times I wouldn't.
If the theater is full of people talking during the movie or lighting the place up while they’re on their phone (in either case ignoring the movie), then I’d rather be alone.
It seems like more times than not, this is the case.
In a previous life, I would go to a lot of art movies, often matinees or monday or etc. Sometimes there was one guy who was working the box-office, the snackbar, and the projection. I was glad he had a job.
Are you American? US cinema culture seems very different to the UK (the only other place I’ve been). In the US it seems much more the norm to react to the film, in the UK generally folks sit in silence.
Yes this is what people get wrong about "home theater". Its not just the tech, its the experience of watching something with others, amplifying the emotions.
Man, seeing The Avengers (2012) in a PACKED theater full of excited Marvel fans was something else. The deafening roar completely drowned out the Hulk's line "puny god".
I used to frequent the brisbane regent cinema precisely because it was reliably empty. The franchise kept it running because having a really nice prestige theatre was good for their brand, but compared to their other sites it was revenue neutral at best.
This is cool. Something about dropping everything to go see a movie in an empty theater is sort of tempting.
One of the joys of having Moviepass in that brief period where it was very cheap but still worked was going to random late-night showings of stuff I'd have never otherwise seen, sometimes being the only person there.
Of course you can still do that with the surviving "all you can eat" plans, but they're way more expensive and aren't quite as generous.
The only film I saw in an empty theater was 'The Death of Stalin'. That was kind of odd but a decent film regardless.
On the one hand Its fun to watch movies alone on a big screen. My area of NJ apparently could care less about movies like Knock Down The House(Biography of AOC and other house candidates), Navalny (Movie about the murdered politician opposing Putin), The Imitation Machine: Movie about Alan Turing or Last Night in Soho (A wonderful Edgar Wright thriller)
On the other hand, I feel sad that no one in my region seems to care enough about these topics. Instead the latest superhero movie is next door packed to the brim and is so loud it rattles the walls to the room playing my quiet documentary with only me sitting inside watching it. :/
I have seen too many video projects that were supposed to be non fictional either have fictional material or a misleading slant such that I would not consider it a good use of my time.
This site will probably defeat its purpose. You discover an empty showing and are excited to have your own "private theater", but thanks to this site, somebody else will have the same idea and you'll both have to share your private theater.
AMC will revoke or modify their API, and break this app’s functionality every 2 weeks on Thursdays at midnight
I’ve been to a few showings by myself back in the moviepass days. It was really nice, I’d wait until a movie was basically at the very end of its run and watch whatever was playing. I can’t stand others making noise, too distracting.
you can also go on your phone if you'd like and yawn loudly and flatulate
On flip side had switch gyms to be among strangers becomes turning on gym socialization really tanked my training.
> On flip side had switch gyms to be among strangers becomes turning on gym socialization really tanked my training.
I think you're in the wrong "actually I prefer to be alone in social spaces" thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48007438
Thank you!
Just put your head phones in, no one will bother you.
I have been quite a heavy patron of AMC theaters these past few years since COVID ended. I have seen A LOT of movies play to empty theaters. I used to actually peek at many of the rooms when I left my movie and so many were downright empty.
Its the norm and its probably why their stock is trading at $1.45 as of this writing.
Its a dead (not dying, dead) entertainment option. When you are competing for the same 24 hrs in a day with TV, Youtube, Gaming, Streaming, TikTok, Instagram and many others the theater is bottom of the barrel for young people today.
And don't tell me its because people are disrespectful or the commercials are too long. These are a problem but Alamo Drafthouse tried to tackle this and they ended up in bankruptcy. AMC would also be bankrupt today but it's saving grace was the meme stock frenzy they had a few years back. Probably bought them a few more years but that ride might be coming to an end.
Currently they fill the rooms for the pop movies like old established franchises but that only comes along every couple weeks at the most and the rest of the time the place is not really busy. This is a bit different in the big cities but AMC has overextended themselves with too many locations in the rural and suburban US.
...Also this app is not displaying accurate data (I assume they are pulling from AMC's API). My local theater is listing no results and I cross checked and there are movies currently listed that have 0 seats booked so the app is counting incorrectly for at least one theater.
EDIT: After I wrote this, the site auto updated with new data. Now I see some screenings but it is still inaccurate because it is still missing movies from that theater...maybe they are scraping instead of using the API? This is a simple problem if using the API (I wrote my own home cooked app): just iterate through all theater ids, find the ones with 0 bookings and display that list.
I want to enjoy the movie theater experience. It should be a better screen than the one in my home. It should be a better audio setup, with full surround sound. It should be great, a premium experience.
The last few movies I’ve seen in theaters have not been that. Two of the last 3 movies I’ve seen had audio mixing problems, and dialogue was inaudible in some scenes. (I heard this got fixed later for one of the movies) In all of them, I could hear bass from the adjacent theaters in some scenes. In the last two movies I went to see, both had someone in the audience bring an intermittently crying baby to the movie.
Im done with watching movies in theaters. It’s a better experience to watch at home, with headphones, a blanket, and the ability to pause for bathroom breaks.
Sounds like you should be visiting Alamo Drafthouse. They take these things extremely seriously and are for the real fans. Here is their ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3eeC2lJZs
Unfortunately since they already filed for bankruptcy a few years back they have had to cut costs and so their system for ordering food replaced (from pen and paper collected and an usher quietly brings you your food to QR code with...a cellphone) people are recently concerned that this has reduced their legendary quality. They still take audio and picture quality very seriously in my experience.
Also where are you located? LA and NYC have legendary theaters that are truly a special treat. Its harder to replicate that in various states but there are still some states trying (ex. NJ being the actual birthplace of the American film industry has a few excellent theaters scattered throughout that dont tolerate poor quality/talkers)
If your story is from AMC theaters just know that you are visiting the Mcdonalds of movie theaters.
Besides the ordering experience, I also feel like the food at the Alamo has gone downhill. It's not bad or anything, but it used to be legit good. Now it's just alright.
It's not the ads, but they're not helping. I still like to go to theaters, but am thinking if not going anymore because I can't really take it. I don't go to AMC since not in the US, but where I go you can't even skip them because you never know how long it will be. I sat once for literally 40 minutes. It's also crazy expensive. So they need to do these things to stay afloat, but they're driving away the last people that still want to go.
It's just dead in its current form, you're right about that. To make it work they need to reinvent themselves. But it's hard.
I don't disagree with you at all. Ads suck. But that ship sailed a long time ago. Just to provide some more context to AMC.
They are a US national chain and they don't run "commercials" just lots of trailers. They have recently announced that they have extended the trailer runtime from 20-25 mins to 35-40 mins. While this is frustrating they always indicate in the app which movies have the trailers (most do) and the approx length. As a result, patron who want to skip the trailers use the app for guidance and just arrive +35 mins after the showtime. Example: https://i.imgur.com/bsVf6AE.png
Given this system, I dont think AMC has really lost patrons because of the ads since everyone who hates them know exactly how long to delay their entrance to the movie room. It really is the other factor I mentioned (they are not compelling enough most of the time vs other entertainment).
One more aspect I forgot to mention is concession prices. Small popcorn is ~10$, small drink is ~7$ so ~17$ for basic concessions and that does not include ticket price ranging between 5$ on Tuesday special deals for standard definition all the way to $27.99+ for premium screen. If you are going to the movies you might as well watch it on their best screen. It gets expensive if you are bringing family. The reason for this pricing is the studio. They actually take a majority of the ticket revenue and they refuse to lower their percentage of ticket prices on the marquee titles (and also require 2 week minimum contracts in the premium screens even if the movie is a stinker)
The theaters are essentially just popcorn/soda vendors who just happen to show movies on the side.
They do also run actual commercials if you're crazy enough to show up before the showtime.
AMC is also interesting because even in the "real" trailer period they have a long ad for AMC itself but also for Coke, then another for themselves telling you to sign up for the loyalty programs, then another for themselves with Nicole Kidman in the theater with her suit with the silver pinstripes. A little thing for the theater is normal but they're going way overboard with it and it's hard to believe it's really effective.
It really seems like a great use case for dynamic pricing.
For $27.99 I can usually get MLB tickets people are dumping last minute (face value starts a few dollars higher) and can always get AAA baseball tickets for less than that.
That dynamism to the pricing helps a lot of people get into the door to those events and I'm sure it helps them milk additional profit out of very interesting games.
I know you say it's the studios setting the price. Why do they seem indifferent to the impending bankruptcy of theaters?
Well $27.99 is for IMAX/Dolby/other premium format. Thats the hook I guess. People do shell out but only for the big blockbuster. The other movies are like the stuff you can watch using your Netflix account so a lot of non franchise movies have shifted direct to Netflix.
This is partly explained by Matt Damon here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF6K2IxC9O8
>I know you say it's the studios setting the price. Why do they seem indifferent to the impending bankruptcy of theaters?
They are pushing their streaming platforms and using the content as just a hook for other more lucrative sources of revenue(ie. Disney and theme parks). Do they really need the theaters now that people are hooked on streaming?
Yes, that's what I meant with crazy expensive, mostly the concessions. The tickets I am ok with, I am in th end going there for the big screen and experience, not to eat crappy food. I go with my kids, and it's just painful. We watched Mario 2 recently, and because my youngest didn't watch the first one, we watched that one at home first. 3.99 to rent 4k and 2.50 for popcorn and drinks for three kids. Puts things in perspective.
It’s guaranteed to start 20 minutes or more after the listed start time. I get my seat and I don’t even show up early.
AMC have taken to just saying outright that everything will start 25-30 minutes after the posted time. Which is interesting, I guess they're trying to blunt the negative effect of the long trailers but I'm sure the advertisers don't like it.
There is always that one person who eats popcorn so loud for most of the movie and ruins the experience for me.
Well, my experience is that people start eating when the lights go out but are nearly finished with the popcorn when the ads and trailers end and the movie starts.
Most people. There's always that one person near you who eats for most of the movie.
Anyways, the point is that with the advent of big home TVs, streaming, I've virtually stopped going to movie theaters. The experience is always subpar every time I go due to eating noise and talking.
i watched 2 movies all alone. one of the best experiences i have ever had since i hate being around people
Where does it get the realtime data for this?
Damn, people really love going to the movies here in Austin, Texas.
Movie theaters are reinventing themselves in various ways, and I’m unsure if it’s working, but some of it is creative.
Around here, films from Bollywood show in Telugu, Hindi, Gujarati languages. There are family films in Spanish (those aren’t bad dubs, but parallel scripts and A-list voice actors.) Want to watch a Studio Ghibli film? Here’s the timetable for dubbed; here’s a timetable for subtitles!
There are live video-game tournaments. There are premieres for live operas and symphony orchestra performances that are simulcast around a region.
There are Christian groups who go in to support a film, and they can turn those into fundraisers and evangelization activity.
The auditoriums can be rented out for special events. Big birthday, Kindergarten graduation, Quinceañeras, etc. They will support teleconferencing and businesses can hold seminars or all-hands meetings there.
I suppose that all of these schemes were harmed by the pandemic and lockdowns, but the advertising is still there, and the Hindus are still showing up on public transit.
I think you are seeing a slice of the full picture. This app is not accurately showing all empty screens. While all of those are ideas that are increasing viewership there is still so much dead weight. Whether these things offset the dead weight I dont know. All I know is AMC is trading at $1.45 today so it does not look great.
Would be a wonderful site for people to find places to have private movie sex, but then I remembered that this is HackerNews