last.fm scrobbling outliving cbs interactive has been unexpected. does anyone know if scrobbling attracts new people, or just keeps the existing user base happy?
I credit last.fm with showing me a lot of the music I love, it’s the perfect recommendation model and still the best social music platform so I’m definitely rooting for you to improve on it!
Thank you!
Last.fm was a huge inspiration for Rocksky. I still think scrobbling and social listening are some of the best ways to discover music. Hoping to bring a more open and modern approach to it with ATProto.
If you can a find a way of A) getting live scrobbles from Last.fm into Rocksky without having to change the clients that are all using Last.fm already and/or B) get historical scrobbles out of Last.fm into Rocksky, I'd think you could potentially take over the ecosystem relatively quickly :)
The ATProto angle is compelling, but I think frictionless migration will be key. If users can import Last.fm history and keep their existing scrobbling clients, this could be much easier to adopt.
So, the app I'm working on now supports scrobbling to both last.fm and ListenBrains.
With the former, I build the app with my own API_KEY and SHARED_SECRET, then the actual user has to add their username/password, which gets stored in the Apple keychain.
With the latter, I don't need a API KEY built into the app, and they just login with a username and a token.
Would I be right that I could just duplicate the listenbrainz code with that new endpoint and it would work the same way?
Mostly yes, but with one important detail.
Rocksky has a minimal ListenBrainz-compatible API, so duplicating the ListenBrainz integration and pointing it to the Rocksky endpoint should work for basic auth + submit/scrobble.
The current limitation is that Rocksky doesn't implement the full ListenBrainz API yet, so anything beyond auth + submitting listens may not work the same way.
I'm trying to keep this path as simple as possible because compatibility with existing scrobblers is important for adoption.
> Rocksky is a decentralized, open-source music tracking and discovery platform built on the AT Protocol. It works like Last.fm but publishes your listening history directly to your Bluesky account.
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Can we start a trend where we tell people what the thing is and what it does without making them dig around to find it?
I don't use Bluesky and don't plan to start. Rocksky really isn't for me.
While it's not like it was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard,' this whole experience could have been concluded a lot faster if the project page simply described the function of the thing in a forthright fashion.
I thought "A decentralized music tracking and discovery platform" and the features list was plenty descriptive. I don't think you have to use Bluesky to use this, I think Bluesky is like the backend, and otherwise it's a Last.fm alternative?
And that's kind of my point: The description of what the thing does is so brief that neither of us can figure it out.
Afterward, there's a ton of instruction on how to install it. Including a link to use it on...someone else's sandbox, I guess? Which sure is neat and that may be a platform that I want to play with for my own purposes, but... the point isn't a sandbox, is it?
Or is that the point? Who could tell?
Anyway, I'm not installing new-to-me software that is so detrimentally-vague about what it is actually meant to do as this is.
(I mean: I already know about last.fm -- I've known about last.fm for decades now and even used to give them a few dollars every month. I still don't know what this thing is supposed to be, or why it exists, or what real advantages it might have. I strongly suspect that it could all be summarized very well in one or two decently-written paragraphs, and it seems very lazy to not simply write them.)
Instead of a line by line command copypaste, they really could have used a single post where users can just copy the commands and paste the set to terminal.
Tonight I'll be adding support for this in an app (Poppy.fm) that already supports both Last.fm and ListenBrainz. Apologies if I missed this, but am I understanding correctly that users must get a Rocksky API key? (In other words, there's no OAuth support for native iOS users who'll expect a "Sign in with Bluesky"-type flow?)
OAuth is possible, but the tricky part is not really the auth flow, it's the client-side ATProto write logic.
To scrobble properly, the client needs to keep enough historical scrobble state to avoid duplicates, and Rocksky doesn't only publish a scrobble record. It may also need to publish related records like artist, album, and track metadata.
So I'd like to make the integration easier, but it needs a bit more than "just OAuth".
You truly know that you're totally out of the loop with some topic when you read "Music discovery on the AT Protocol" and think how the heck did they manage to build such thing with just AT Commands against a GSM modem [^]
I’m running MultiScrobbler to scrobble from multiple sources (Spotify/PlexAmp) to multiple sinks (Last.fm/ListenBrainz/Maloja). Looks like they already support writing to Rocksky!
Rocksky itself isn't a streaming service, it tracks what you listen to from other apps/services and builds discovery/social features arround that listening history.
I really hate the word scrobble. I'm pretty tolerant of weird language as long as it can be understood, but this can't. Everybody who uses the word seems to think it's a normal word that everybody already knows or can figure out from context (so they never define it), but "scrobble your music" could mean a million things.
That's fair honestly,
"Scrobbling" is such an old Last.fm-era term that people already in that ecosystem forget it sounds weird to everyone else.
In practice it just means automatically tracking the music you listen to (songs, artists, albums, listening history, stats, recommendations, etc.).
I should probably explain that more clearly on the repo/site.
I ditched all music services and now navidrome+narjo combo, works perfectly well, flac, and with reverse proxy exposing the server there’s no need to vpn or anything, it’s a drop in replacement, and free.
last.fm scrobbling outliving cbs interactive has been unexpected. does anyone know if scrobbling attracts new people, or just keeps the existing user base happy?
Super awesome!
I credit last.fm with showing me a lot of the music I love, it’s the perfect recommendation model and still the best social music platform so I’m definitely rooting for you to improve on it!
Thank you! Last.fm was a huge inspiration for Rocksky. I still think scrobbling and social listening are some of the best ways to discover music. Hoping to bring a more open and modern approach to it with ATProto.
If you can a find a way of A) getting live scrobbles from Last.fm into Rocksky without having to change the clients that are all using Last.fm already and/or B) get historical scrobbles out of Last.fm into Rocksky, I'd think you could potentially take over the ecosystem relatively quickly :)
Yes, interoperability is super important to me. I don't want users to rebuild their entire setup just to try Rocksky.
The ATProto angle is compelling, but I think frictionless migration will be key. If users can import Last.fm history and keep their existing scrobbling clients, this could be much easier to adopt.
So, the app I'm working on now supports scrobbling to both last.fm and ListenBrains.
With the former, I build the app with my own API_KEY and SHARED_SECRET, then the actual user has to add their username/password, which gets stored in the Apple keychain.
With the latter, I don't need a API KEY built into the app, and they just login with a username and a token.
Would I be right that I could just duplicate the listenbrainz code with that new endpoint and it would work the same way?
Mostly yes, but with one important detail. Rocksky has a minimal ListenBrainz-compatible API, so duplicating the ListenBrainz integration and pointing it to the Rocksky endpoint should work for basic auth + submit/scrobble. The current limitation is that Rocksky doesn't implement the full ListenBrainz API yet, so anything beyond auth + submitting listens may not work the same way. I'm trying to keep this path as simple as possible because compatibility with existing scrobblers is important for adoption.
https://rocksky.app
Thanks. From the FAQ, https://docs.rocksky.app/faq-918661m0
> What is Rocksky?
> Rocksky is a decentralized, open-source music tracking and discovery platform built on the AT Protocol. It works like Last.fm but publishes your listening history directly to your Bluesky account.
-
Can we start a trend where we tell people what the thing is and what it does without making them dig around to find it?
I don't use Bluesky and don't plan to start. Rocksky really isn't for me.
While it's not like it was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard,' this whole experience could have been concluded a lot faster if the project page simply described the function of the thing in a forthright fashion.
I thought "A decentralized music tracking and discovery platform" and the features list was plenty descriptive. I don't think you have to use Bluesky to use this, I think Bluesky is like the backend, and otherwise it's a Last.fm alternative?
Yeah. I don't know, either.
And that's kind of my point: The description of what the thing does is so brief that neither of us can figure it out.
Afterward, there's a ton of instruction on how to install it. Including a link to use it on...someone else's sandbox, I guess? Which sure is neat and that may be a platform that I want to play with for my own purposes, but... the point isn't a sandbox, is it?
Or is that the point? Who could tell?
Anyway, I'm not installing new-to-me software that is so detrimentally-vague about what it is actually meant to do as this is.
(I mean: I already know about last.fm -- I've known about last.fm for decades now and even used to give them a few dollars every month. I still don't know what this thing is supposed to be, or why it exists, or what real advantages it might have. I strongly suspect that it could all be summarized very well in one or two decently-written paragraphs, and it seems very lazy to not simply write them.)
Instead of a line by line command copypaste, they really could have used a single post where users can just copy the commands and paste the set to terminal.
Tonight I'll be adding support for this in an app (Poppy.fm) that already supports both Last.fm and ListenBrainz. Apologies if I missed this, but am I understanding correctly that users must get a Rocksky API key? (In other words, there's no OAuth support for native iOS users who'll expect a "Sign in with Bluesky"-type flow?)
OAuth is possible, but the tricky part is not really the auth flow, it's the client-side ATProto write logic. To scrobble properly, the client needs to keep enough historical scrobble state to avoid duplicates, and Rocksky doesn't only publish a scrobble record. It may also need to publish related records like artist, album, and track metadata. So I'd like to make the integration easier, but it needs a bit more than "just OAuth".
Understood. If you need a guinea pig for that, please reach out! (see HN profile)
Finally an Atmosphere app on HN, and it's also a very cool one!
Two if we're being pedantic, Tangled.org where this git repository is hosted it also a Atmosphere app ;)
You truly know that you're totally out of the loop with some topic when you read "Music discovery on the AT Protocol" and think how the heck did they manage to build such thing with just AT Commands against a GSM modem [^]
^ https://ozeki.hu/p_3653-at-command-guide-for-gsm-modem-netwo...
I don't know why you are being downvoted, but I totally thought about that AT protocol first.
Apparently, the OP refers to <https://atproto.com/> per the FAQ at <https://docs.rocksky.app/faq-918661m0#what-is-the-at-protoco...>
Hopefully Plex (PlexAmp specifically) will support this at some point.
I’m running MultiScrobbler to scrobble from multiple sources (Spotify/PlexAmp) to multiple sinks (Last.fm/ListenBrainz/Maloja). Looks like they already support writing to Rocksky!
https://github.com/FoxxMD/multi-scrobbler
So you can scrobble and it gets you new music? But so, how can you listen to that new music?
You scrobble to record your listens, and then based on your listening history, there are many ways (in scrobblers and services that integrate with them) to get recommendations. Example: https://resources.onestowatch.com/how-lastfm-recommends-new-...
Rocksky itself isn't a streaming service, it tracks what you listen to from other apps/services and builds discovery/social features arround that listening history.
I really hate the word scrobble. I'm pretty tolerant of weird language as long as it can be understood, but this can't. Everybody who uses the word seems to think it's a normal word that everybody already knows or can figure out from context (so they never define it), but "scrobble your music" could mean a million things.
That's fair honestly, "Scrobbling" is such an old Last.fm-era term that people already in that ecosystem forget it sounds weird to everyone else. In practice it just means automatically tracking the music you listen to (songs, artists, albums, listening history, stats, recommendations, etc.). I should probably explain that more clearly on the repo/site.
Can you add a youtube video of the song so it plays it on your site?
A lot of commercial music refuses to be played within an iframe
Lovely, will give it a try later today!
I ditched all music services and now navidrome+narjo combo, works perfectly well, flac, and with reverse proxy exposing the server there’s no need to vpn or anything, it’s a drop in replacement, and free.