Some scepticism here I see, but personally I think this is spot-on. I've been keen on a dumber phone for a while, but losing whatsapp & maps makes it a non-starter for any real use. This is an excellent middle ground. The aesthetic is cool, and building this on Sailfish but with Android compatibility is awesome. Big fan of the concept.
Phone like this, especially with whatsapp, is something I can imagine giving to my kids once they are older. They would love the design 1000x more than what biggest players bring on the market these days. Maps & whatsapp cover basically 99% of the needs I want them to be covered (contact with optional video & navigation).
Full phone? No thank you, its enough to look around how it ends up.
The skepticism isn't around the concept (for some) - it's the bonkers $500 price tag when you can go get a 5G military grade waterproof flip phone with a very robust removable battery and much more impressive tech/stats for $200.
Exactly. But clearly we - people who are cost conscious about getting their money's worth - aren't the target market for these "niche" devices. Which is sad, as there is a real market for a reasonably priced device like this that many would buy as a "second" phone (and maybe even make it their primary phone). Just look at all the Nokia / HMD kind-of "premium" "feature phones" (calling them "dumb phones" is silly) still sold for around $150 - $250. The only reason that they aren't as "popular" now is because the Symbian OS or KaiOS they use is lacking in many aspects. And HMD (and others) don't understanding the user needs (for example, selling such 4G phones that don't even have the ability to be a hotspot device).
Many countries don't use SMS, they use WhatsApp, for almost everything, from chatting with family and friends, to business contacts, to talking with your bank manager, to medical appointments, to 2FA, and even to transfer money.
That's what prevents most people on those countries from having a dumb phone, and forces even the most illiterate of 90yo great-grandmothers to learn how to navigate around Android or iOS, all the while placing uncountable many calls to their great-grandchildren because they opened up some random app by accident and don't remember how to get back to the only thing that matters: WhatsApp (talking from experience here).
A WhatsApp-capable quasi-dumb-phone would be a godsend for such places, provided it's cheap enough. At $500 this one definitely isn't, not when an ultra-cheap Android smartphone capable of running WhatsApp costs $90. But if this one sells well, cheaper ones may become viable down the line due to economies of scale. I surely hope that happens.
As long as Meta owns WhatsApp, don’t hold your breath.
They operate the service to get your personal data into the hands of their customers (advertisers) so why would they support a dumb client that is designed to be incompatible with their business model
It doesn't have the same business model as the rest of Meta (which by the way, is to get advertisers products in front of users eyeballs, optimized by their personal data. Not to hand said personal data over to advertisers or anybody else, which would be a bit dumb as it's Meta's crown jewels)
Only? It was half your comment. The point is that the amount of "real use" (I think we can all guess at a good-enough definition) of a phone without WhatsApp in a country where it's pervasive is not enough for most people. And what do you mean by "maps exist"? Paper maps?
Yeah me too. It felt like it was designed exclusively for me, it ticks all the boxes in what a dumb phone should and shouldn't have in terms of functionality.
I'm perhaps misinterpreting your comment, but from the FAQ:
> Callback includes SMS, WhatsApp, [..]
> Callback includes Pure Maps, a popular Sailfish navigation app, and is compatible with several Android map, navigation, and transport apps, including Uber and Lyft.
Retrocomputing Roundtable has talked about the new Commodore company over the course of a couple episodes, and I thought they brought up a good point about “what is it that people actually want from Commodore,” and the best answer they came up with is “to be 12 again.”
A new C64 with modern video output, a disk emulator, a SID chip replacement so you don’t need an original… that’s all good, but beyond that, it’s hard to say. This phone, though? I don’t think anyone saw that coming, and I don’t see how this could possibly be the right move.
Perifractic (the CEO of Commodore.net, and a prominent YouTuber) has made a few videos that describe his anti-smartphone stance. It's not that big of a surprise.
I had my first flip phone at the age of ... 12! And I can definitely see myself replacing my iPhone 12 with something like that once its battery has died. I don't need 99% of functionality of a smartphone, because I own (and carry along with me) a computer with a physical keyboard at all times - except those where this phone would do 99.9% of the jobs a smartphone would do.
Edit: just saw the price point. Nevermind, not going to spend more than 50 bucks on that.
I'm at my computer now and I took a second look, and honestly that beige edition is damn good nostalgia bait. I still find it to be an odd direction to go, but it does look very good for what it is.
Not only that, but this is exactly the kind of phone I get for my 12 yo. I love that it doesn’t even have a browser that I’d need to try to disable via ADB or some other hack. If it’s nicer than KaiOS, and compatible with the right networks, it could be a win for the parents and tweens.
Edit: then I saw the price. Holy crap, I’ll stick with a $25 Blu.
Nice, but a little bit too thin on details to read this as more than "we ordered a Commodore-branded Sailfish-OS phone from an ODM".
If it would be more "considerate" from hardware (or even software) perspective it could be compelling, but from the infos on that page it sounds more like a "memberberry" product
(like e.g. a phone from Kodak, Sega, Atari,... built on the business decision of [product-cost] + [branding] = [potential price-premium of xxx USD])
This is interesting to me for a few different reasons, but one of the bigger ones is that it appears to be a Sailfish device that’s readily available in the US, which to date has been oddly rare. As a dev, Sailfish has caught my eye a few times over the years but no US availability has meant I’ve never had the chance to play with it.
It seems that way, marketing page claims broad support incl. VoLTE which bodes well for US compatibility, however I noticed this in the FAQ:
Q: What network bands are supported?
A: Please see the Network Specifications section above this FAQ for supported bands and carrier compatibility.
But there is no "Network Specificiations" section on the page that I can find. It would be really nice to know which specific bands the modem supports.
This is really confusing brand/product combination. Who is it trying to appeal to?
I'm pretty sure the people who have fond memories of growing up with a C64 or watching ToS are of an entirely different generation than those with fond memories of flip phones and cyber/color-puke ads for transparent plastic gadgets.
> BASIC Beige Edition
There's a missed opportunity for a better ToS joke here: "Beige... the final frontier"
> A flip phone with the apps you need: WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram. Music, podcasts, maps
Honestly, that sounds appealing to me at least. Those are the only communication channels I have, so it suits. Maps if I get lost somewhere. And some spotify. I pretty much have that now, but just with constant privacy breaches and issues I need to stay on top of.
> There's a missed opportunity for a better ToS joke here: "Beige... the final frontier"
I don't think this product will actually ever launch, but if it does, it absolutely MUST have a beige model.
If I were to get one, I would certainly get beige... just bought a nice beige mechanical keyboard. I don't think I would pay $500 for it. $150 to $200 maybe.
I got my youngest child an AOSP flip phone. I'm semi happy with it. You can't install apps on it (so no Signal, but also no Subway Surfers). But on the other hand, it has a web browser, which is a big hole; the web browser is good enough to show postage-stamp-sized YouTube.
The Commodore flip phone would be kind of usable for me as long as it could run Duo Mobile; having Signal is a big plus. Not sure it's a $500 plus. Lacking RCS is a non-trivial minus but not a deal-breaker.
It's appealing to the y2k and fruitger aero aesthetic. All the people on the street right now in baggy camo pants with a bag full of tech like mp3 players and digicams would buy this thing up.
I don't know about "fond" memories of a flip phone, but I grew up with a C64, and my first phone was a flip phone, so in terms of age group I don't think it's too far off.
I'm not looking to go back to a flip phone, though. I'd buy one as another fun thing for my display wall if it was cheaper, but it's a bit too expensive for that.
For a while now I’ve been considering using a flip phone but I just can’t go without modern messaging apps because no one uses sms anymore. This seems like exactly what I wanted.
> If it had an option to install a messenger of choice (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp etc)
It has that capability. From TFA:
> A flip phone with the apps you need: WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram. Music, podcasts, maps, rideshare, a great camera for the moments worth keeping.
I saw the "Get $50 off!" and thought "Oh cool, maybe I could get this for $150!" then checked the actual page and saw $499... absolutely not.
Also the whole store page just feels off. The weird mix of "beige" and furtiger-aero-esque imagery is confusing, and my gut hunch is that there's some AI images here. I understand they're trying to appeal to 2 different nostalgias, but it just doesn't mix. And for something allegedly releasing at the end of this month, there's a disappointing lack of images of actual devices.
The "founders edition" being gold plated just seems kinda tone deaf? There was recently a different controversial gold phone that I am immediately thinking about and I don't think that connection should really exist. $140 more for gold plating?
And their feature comparison down at the bottom has the Lightphone 3 with red X's for "swappable battery and back cover" and "blocks social media", which are definitely both features of the LP3? Unless you want to be pedantic and say that the LP3 doesn't block social media because you can modify it in an unauthorized way to allow installing Android apps, but I'd be willing to bet you'll be able to do the same with this Commodore phone) And they add an extra $40 to the MSRP to the other devices to account for the "value" of the headphones included with the commodore phone? And on that note, what's the line "*Earphones sold separately – price includes $40 headset comparable to Light Phone III & Callback" mean? Why's the LP3 in that line? It doesn't include headphones. (I'm just picking on this in particular because I own a LP3 and have direct experience with it)
I like the idea, but I have major problems with their inclusion of Meta-owned WhatsApp. Any company which cares about privacy should throw WhatsApp into a volcano. That said, I understand why they include it as much of the world uses it as the default for some reason I still can't understand.
~~Anyway, I love the idea and would use something like this if it allowed me to choose a configuration at order time which could include or not include a set of available apps which are curated by the manufacturer. That way, the apps are immutable and the mission of the phone is preserved. Also, a real keyboard is an absolute must for apps like maps, telegram, and SMS.~~
Looks like you can indeed uninstall and install apps as you like.
The whole point of the phone is that you don't install or uninstall apps. They're there, and are immutable as far as I can tell.
_EDIT_
raffael_de is absolutely correct, apps can be installed and removed, as they have their own "app store". Apologies for creating confusion and thanks for pointing it out.
I’ve been getting my kids KaiOS flip phones where I can disable the browser via ADB. I get a year of service and a phone for around $35 (TracPhone). There’s enough minutes that they can be used for coordinating pickups and emergencies. I’ve had nearly zero issues with the exception of ADB file transfer for music.
This looks really awesome! It's pretty hard to wrap my head around the price though. $500 USD (so $700(!!!) Canadian) is pretty bizarre for what it is.
Well yeah, it looks like a Motorola, and the Motorola flip phones looked like the Star Trek TOS communicators (which they acknowledged by calling their first flip phone the "StarTAC"). And the article also references Star Trek. Sure, the kind of nostalgic people that are in the market for a Commodore phone probably also have the same feelings about Star Trek, so why not...
I would possibly be interested in getting one. Sure, it's twice as expensive as other dumbphones (like TTfone TT990, Sidephone, Dumber Mini, Qin F21 Pro to name a few).
But I don't like that they have blocked all web browsers. I don't really mind that social media is blocked, I would probably not install it anyways. But a web browser... I don't really like that arbitrary apps are blocked.
I think it's the form factor and small screen size that would decrease your phone usage. So I think it would be enough with just being a flip phone with a small screen. Blocking apps feels a bit too much.
If I'm out and need to look something up, I would rather that it's a tedious experience with a small screen and T9 keyboard. Rather than not having the option at all.
Two things need to change and this would be a hit:
1/ Find My support or similar (for parents who would give this to kids)
2/ WhatsApp?????? That is the ultimate social network so it should definitely not be there by default.
What is the deal with WhatsApp? My family roped me into using it, "because it's better than text messages", we've been using it regularly for over a year, and it's... literally the same thing? I don't get it.
1. If you're not based in a country where SMS was included free, it was/is advantageous to use something delivered over the Internet, rather than carrier.
2. It allowed for sharing multimedia better.
3. It closed the divide between Android and iOS, giving a singular experience across the two systems.
4. Prior to RCS, it allowed for typing notifications, high resolution media, read receipts, etc whereas SMS did not offer these options.
5. There really isn't any additional benefit for most of these now; but, folks are already ingrained into the ecosystem.
This phone not having RCS is not great. In the US it's the closest thing to a real messaging app that you can just use with random people without pre-arranging to install Signal or something.
Right, but if absolutely everybody you know is on WhatsApp and have no desire to move to Signal or Telegram, chances are you're going to end up using WhatsApp regardless of your feelings toward Meta.
Decent support for groups. If you're in a country where WhatsApp is common, like the UK, odds are you'll end up in a dozen WhatsApp groups. Especially if you have kids. Groups for every birthday, playdate, year group in school...
And the result is just penetration, so if you're somewhere it's widespread, odds are it's going to be the preference of a lot of people.
For me, SMS is for spammy notifications. WhatsApp is where all the messages from real people I have the phone number of comes. I never get real people SMS'ing me.
I can imagine most people who would use this would also own a regular phone. Personally I have a couple apps like this that I would be fine on a phone I leave at home while on the go I only need messaging, maps, and uber.
I really want to like this, but as someone who's daily driven Sailfish before (albeit not in a while), one of the things you'll likely miss if you're in the US is group MMS support.
Maybe Commodore is paying Jolla enough that they'll be able to add group MMS support by the time this launches? But if not... it's something you might not even think could be missing, and not having it can be a problem if people expect to be able to send you group texts.
I’ve worked with flip phones for years, and I think this is the first one I’ve seen with Sailfish! I didn’t see the specs, but it’s got to be comparable to a budget Android phone to run that well. I’m curious to see more of the UX, performance, and security. How does it come to an RTOS phone running Mocor, or a smart feature phone running KaiOS?
I'm torn on the blocking of web browsers. Yeah, they can be used for getting to Facebook or whatever. But they are also used to access 99% of the world's info now. Seems like if you just wanted to block social media, a DNS block or even firewall would be a better option.
So is there any connection with the original commodore company at all or is this just a case of “rich kid gets his hands on an old long dead IP for milking”?
Well, Perrifractic has no connection to the original Commodore in the sense of having worked there (he was a child in the heyday of the C64 and Amiga), but he isn't just some random person trying to cash in - he's a long time Youtuber focusing on Commodore and other 1980s computers and his enthusiasm is genuine.
I honestly don't think Perryfractic would be that sad if it doesn't last (assuming he, Lady Fractic, and child and dogs don't become homeless in the bankruptcy) He knows perfectly well that the audience for Commodore nostalgia is small and aging and is just enjoying being part of the scene while it lasts.
I disagree a great camera is a must have. This is targeting the person who wants single purpose tech rather than a do everything smartphone. If you need a camera on a trip, chuck one in your bag.
And these days a great camera isn't desirable anyway, if you go to a party now everyone is taking photos with keychain cameras like the kodak charmera or instant cameras like the fujifilm instax. These have atrocious image quality, but people like that more than modern processed iphone photos.
Hmm I imagine using a server to connect to signal/whatsapp or even email, then using a local model to classify and filter and trim messages and forwarding to SMS, and viceversa. I guess the trouble is I’d need many source numbers :thinking:.
I use a QR code based app locking mechanism that blocks browsers and some apps. I never turn it back on. That's all. I use a regular smartphone.
I heard this quote in many American movies: "The first way to get rid of addiction is admitting to yourself that you have no power over the substance." or something in the same vain.
I admit I am powerless over doomscrolling. I just create a barrier to entry that never expires. Solves my problems. No alpha male self control BS. Just brain chemistry-aware tricks.
If I were involuntarily injected with serious drugs, my brain would crave it. Social media is the same. No point arguing otherwise.
OMG, hire some designers! It seems they took some ugly phone from early 2000s, applied some 1990s "copy the imac transparent case" aesthetic, slapped a Commodore logo on it and called it done.
I mean, yeah, it sends a visual statement and I'm sure some diehard Commodore fans will buy it, but it looks exactly like the kind of junk you'd have found for $10 in the Shenzhen knock off markets 15 years ago.
My wife and I got a flip phone for our daughter when she was in elementary school. It was inexpensive, allowed her to text us when on the school bus - gave us the connection we all needed. About a year later the pull of a phone that could run Spotify won, but for that year the flip phone really was great. And cheap.
I'm not familiar with the OS on this phone, but it sounds interesting.
Meh, I find perryfractic's stuff to be more style over substance. It's interesting that he's releasing products, but not interesting enough for me to buy
what? you made choke.... Where I live, those kind of flip phones used to normal price €€ to 100something€ back then, how we ended at 500?
I must ask if it's going to make coffee too haha.
Unlike many flip phones, there is smartphone hardware inside capable of running Android apps — except that it is only a curated selection from Commodore's own app store.
The cost of running the app store is probably included.
Smaller production runs also mean higher price.
BTW, early adopters can get up to $100 off. (pre-order discount + discount code in the newsletter)
-> $500
-> Corny nostalgia-bait
-> No web browser
-> No social media
-> System-level DNS blocking
Lmfao. What even is the point of this ? I could see an argument for not allowing to install social media apps, but blocking me arbitrarily from even accessing them through a browser is crazy. The OS is Linux-based too, so there’s no technical constraint, they just went out of their way to add always-on parental control.
For $500 (FIVE HUNDRED) you get a $30 dumb phone with Whatsapp. Wow.
Then it's not literally for you and people who are dependent on social media. It's almost like there is a growing populace who don't want to be there 24/7. Also most people would access the needed sites or social media via laptop or desktop. Not to mention that you feel that it's "corny nostalgia-bait" gives me vibes that you are younger than the target audience of this device even is.
I use zero social medias and I have a phone that wouldn’t tell me no if I (a grown adult) did want to use them.
In fact I’d believe this is exactly for social media addicts because needing to be blocked from even accessing the domains by your OS to not use them is truly something.
And it is nostalgia bait. Wide sweeping nostalgia bait (C64 and Y2K). Corny nostalgia bait because surfing on pre social media Internet and Y2K aesthetics has been an overdone low-hanging fruit for at least 2 years already.
My main problem is the price. This has barely any more capabilities than a burner AliExpress dumbphone. Their margin is most likely egregious (because you’re paying for nostalgia bait).
How exactly do you expect me to know I don’t want to buy something without thinking about it first ?
A product was presented to me -> I analyzed the product’s specs -> I compared those specs to the product’s asking price -> I concluded the asking price was too high for the specs -> I concluded I do not want to buy the product
I didn’t think about this any more or less than I should’ve.
The new Commodore seems to see itself not as a retro nostalgia vintage computer company, but an anti social media company - which explains this product.
Some scepticism here I see, but personally I think this is spot-on. I've been keen on a dumber phone for a while, but losing whatsapp & maps makes it a non-starter for any real use. This is an excellent middle ground. The aesthetic is cool, and building this on Sailfish but with Android compatibility is awesome. Big fan of the concept.
Phone like this, especially with whatsapp, is something I can imagine giving to my kids once they are older. They would love the design 1000x more than what biggest players bring on the market these days. Maps & whatsapp cover basically 99% of the needs I want them to be covered (contact with optional video & navigation).
Full phone? No thank you, its enough to look around how it ends up.
The skepticism isn't around the concept (for some) - it's the bonkers $500 price tag when you can go get a 5G military grade waterproof flip phone with a very robust removable battery and much more impressive tech/stats for $200.
Exactly. But clearly we - people who are cost conscious about getting their money's worth - aren't the target market for these "niche" devices. Which is sad, as there is a real market for a reasonably priced device like this that many would buy as a "second" phone (and maybe even make it their primary phone). Just look at all the Nokia / HMD kind-of "premium" "feature phones" (calling them "dumb phones" is silly) still sold for around $150 - $250. The only reason that they aren't as "popular" now is because the Symbian OS or KaiOS they use is lacking in many aspects. And HMD (and others) don't understanding the user needs (for example, selling such 4G phones that don't even have the ability to be a hotspot device).
I’d be interested in this military grade phone, where can one acquire it?
There are several phones that fit the description, but I was thinking specifically of the Sonim XP3plus 5G.
For me, Id say that whatsapp is the phone. It’s so much better than pstn…
maps exist, you must have missed that... as for whatsapp, I have never used it once, and yet my phone provides "real use" (whatever that means).
Many countries don't use SMS, they use WhatsApp, for almost everything, from chatting with family and friends, to business contacts, to talking with your bank manager, to medical appointments, to 2FA, and even to transfer money.
That's what prevents most people on those countries from having a dumb phone, and forces even the most illiterate of 90yo great-grandmothers to learn how to navigate around Android or iOS, all the while placing uncountable many calls to their great-grandchildren because they opened up some random app by accident and don't remember how to get back to the only thing that matters: WhatsApp (talking from experience here).
A WhatsApp-capable quasi-dumb-phone would be a godsend for such places, provided it's cheap enough. At $500 this one definitely isn't, not when an ultra-cheap Android smartphone capable of running WhatsApp costs $90. But if this one sells well, cheaper ones may become viable down the line due to economies of scale. I surely hope that happens.
As long as Meta owns WhatsApp, don’t hold your breath.
They operate the service to get your personal data into the hands of their customers (advertisers) so why would they support a dumb client that is designed to be incompatible with their business model
WhatsApp messages are end to end encrypted.
It doesn't have the same business model as the rest of Meta (which by the way, is to get advertisers products in front of users eyeballs, optimized by their personal data. Not to hand said personal data over to advertisers or anybody else, which would be a bit dumb as it's Meta's crown jewels)
Try to understand that the person you're replying to clearly has different needs than you do.
re-read my comment.. you're confused about what my response means apparently.
That person might have a narrow, blinkered view, in which maps on a phone are essential, unable to understand that other people don't care.
The more obvious lack of understanding is yours w/r/t the scope of what they wrote.
You are not a representative user, at least in a country where WhatsApp is dominant.
I guess you only saw whatsapp in my comment and missed the rest of it.
Only? It was half your comment. The point is that the amount of "real use" (I think we can all guess at a good-enough definition) of a phone without WhatsApp in a country where it's pervasive is not enough for most people. And what do you mean by "maps exist"? Paper maps?
Yeah me too. It felt like it was designed exclusively for me, it ticks all the boxes in what a dumb phone should and shouldn't have in terms of functionality.
I'm perhaps misinterpreting your comment, but from the FAQ:
> Callback includes SMS, WhatsApp, [..]
> Callback includes Pure Maps, a popular Sailfish navigation app, and is compatible with several Android map, navigation, and transport apps, including Uber and Lyft.
For me, Maps and pods.
If it looked like a RAZR, I'd buy one today
Retrocomputing Roundtable has talked about the new Commodore company over the course of a couple episodes, and I thought they brought up a good point about “what is it that people actually want from Commodore,” and the best answer they came up with is “to be 12 again.”
A new C64 with modern video output, a disk emulator, a SID chip replacement so you don’t need an original… that’s all good, but beyond that, it’s hard to say. This phone, though? I don’t think anyone saw that coming, and I don’t see how this could possibly be the right move.
> I don’t think anyone saw that coming
Perifractic (the CEO of Commodore.net, and a prominent YouTuber) has made a few videos that describe his anti-smartphone stance. It's not that big of a surprise.
Ah, I don't follow him directly so I only ever hear about the computer-related stuff.
I had my first flip phone at the age of ... 12! And I can definitely see myself replacing my iPhone 12 with something like that once its battery has died. I don't need 99% of functionality of a smartphone, because I own (and carry along with me) a computer with a physical keyboard at all times - except those where this phone would do 99.9% of the jobs a smartphone would do.
Edit: just saw the price point. Nevermind, not going to spend more than 50 bucks on that.
I'm at my computer now and I took a second look, and honestly that beige edition is damn good nostalgia bait. I still find it to be an odd direction to go, but it does look very good for what it is.
At 50/100$ it would be great but for 500$ I’m not sure
Not only that, but this is exactly the kind of phone I get for my 12 yo. I love that it doesn’t even have a browser that I’d need to try to disable via ADB or some other hack. If it’s nicer than KaiOS, and compatible with the right networks, it could be a win for the parents and tweens.
Edit: then I saw the price. Holy crap, I’ll stick with a $25 Blu.
Nice, but a little bit too thin on details to read this as more than "we ordered a Commodore-branded Sailfish-OS phone from an ODM".
If it would be more "considerate" from hardware (or even software) perspective it could be compelling, but from the infos on that page it sounds more like a "memberberry" product
(like e.g. a phone from Kodak, Sega, Atari,... built on the business decision of [product-cost] + [branding] = [potential price-premium of xxx USD])
> we ordered a Commodore-branded Sailfish-OS phone from an ODM
Is this true? I did some research on flip phones the other week and I didn't turn up anything running Sailfish. Options seemed limited to
* custom AOSP derivatives (Punkt, Sunbeam, Kyocera, others - most common)
* older KaiOS devices (Nokia 2780 and friends)
* Nokia S30+ devices (traditional proprietary feature-phone firmware, somehow Nokia is still producing these)
Are there any other examples of Sailfish phones being vendored similar to how Commodore is doing theirs?
Not in North America, no but that's what people are saying; they simply imported the structure of SailfishOS that's used in other parts of the world.
This is interesting to me for a few different reasons, but one of the bigger ones is that it appears to be a Sailfish device that’s readily available in the US, which to date has been oddly rare. As a dev, Sailfish has caught my eye a few times over the years but no US availability has meant I’ve never had the chance to play with it.
It seems that way, marketing page claims broad support incl. VoLTE which bodes well for US compatibility, however I noticed this in the FAQ:
Q: What network bands are supported?
A: Please see the Network Specifications section above this FAQ for supported bands and carrier compatibility.
But there is no "Network Specificiations" section on the page that I can find. It would be really nice to know which specific bands the modem supports.
They had different supported Xperia devices over the last decade...
This is really confusing brand/product combination. Who is it trying to appeal to?
I'm pretty sure the people who have fond memories of growing up with a C64 or watching ToS are of an entirely different generation than those with fond memories of flip phones and cyber/color-puke ads for transparent plastic gadgets.
> BASIC Beige Edition
There's a missed opportunity for a better ToS joke here: "Beige... the final frontier"
>> Who is it trying to appeal to?
To me. I want to have access to whatsapp/browser but with constraints of T9 so that I am not tempted to jump from website to website or write a lot.
And I want a phone that does not look like the most lazy thing a company could possibly do with 0 design effort put into it.
> A flip phone with the apps you need: WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram. Music, podcasts, maps
Honestly, that sounds appealing to me at least. Those are the only communication channels I have, so it suits. Maps if I get lost somewhere. And some spotify. I pretty much have that now, but just with constant privacy breaches and issues I need to stay on top of.
> There's a missed opportunity for a better ToS joke here: "Beige... the final frontier"
I don't think this product will actually ever launch, but if it does, it absolutely MUST have a beige model.
If I were to get one, I would certainly get beige... just bought a nice beige mechanical keyboard. I don't think I would pay $500 for it. $150 to $200 maybe.
I got my youngest child an AOSP flip phone. I'm semi happy with it. You can't install apps on it (so no Signal, but also no Subway Surfers). But on the other hand, it has a web browser, which is a big hole; the web browser is good enough to show postage-stamp-sized YouTube.
The Commodore flip phone would be kind of usable for me as long as it could run Duo Mobile; having Signal is a big plus. Not sure it's a $500 plus. Lacking RCS is a non-trivial minus but not a deal-breaker.
> Honestly, that sounds appealing to me at least.
Absolutely, same here—but it has to look good. I know that's subjective, but this thing looks atrocious.
It's appealing to the y2k and fruitger aero aesthetic. All the people on the street right now in baggy camo pants with a bag full of tech like mp3 players and digicams would buy this thing up.
Yeah, it could be a bit more like Razr, and for the youngsters in the audience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Razr_V3
What do you mean? I'm Gen X but remember all those things. It seems like a reasonable mashup of nostalgia.
Same here, I can really see the appeal of such a product.
I don't know about "fond" memories of a flip phone, but I grew up with a C64, and my first phone was a flip phone, so in terms of age group I don't think it's too far off.
I'm not looking to go back to a flip phone, though. I'd buy one as another fun thing for my display wall if it was cheaper, but it's a bit too expensive for that.
For a while now I’ve been considering using a flip phone but I just can’t go without modern messaging apps because no one uses sms anymore. This seems like exactly what I wanted.
I am really happy someone is trying something new again. It isn't yet another iOS/Android clone, and I'm here for it!
$120 max and I’m feeling generous. If it had an option to install a messenger of choice (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp etc) then maybe $140-150.
The whole "people want their data and privacy and all" is becoming the next premium service and/or product and I don’t like that at all.
> If it had an option to install a messenger of choice (Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp etc)
It has that capability. From TFA: > A flip phone with the apps you need: WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram. Music, podcasts, maps, rideshare, a great camera for the moments worth keeping.
Oh I've missed that, thanks!
I saw the "Get $50 off!" and thought "Oh cool, maybe I could get this for $150!" then checked the actual page and saw $499... absolutely not.
Also the whole store page just feels off. The weird mix of "beige" and furtiger-aero-esque imagery is confusing, and my gut hunch is that there's some AI images here. I understand they're trying to appeal to 2 different nostalgias, but it just doesn't mix. And for something allegedly releasing at the end of this month, there's a disappointing lack of images of actual devices.
The "founders edition" being gold plated just seems kinda tone deaf? There was recently a different controversial gold phone that I am immediately thinking about and I don't think that connection should really exist. $140 more for gold plating?
And their feature comparison down at the bottom has the Lightphone 3 with red X's for "swappable battery and back cover" and "blocks social media", which are definitely both features of the LP3? Unless you want to be pedantic and say that the LP3 doesn't block social media because you can modify it in an unauthorized way to allow installing Android apps, but I'd be willing to bet you'll be able to do the same with this Commodore phone) And they add an extra $40 to the MSRP to the other devices to account for the "value" of the headphones included with the commodore phone? And on that note, what's the line "*Earphones sold separately – price includes $40 headset comparable to Light Phone III & Callback" mean? Why's the LP3 in that line? It doesn't include headphones. (I'm just picking on this in particular because I own a LP3 and have direct experience with it)
Sheesh. $500 is a hard pass from me. Too bad because I was psyched to try this.
I like the idea, but I have major problems with their inclusion of Meta-owned WhatsApp. Any company which cares about privacy should throw WhatsApp into a volcano. That said, I understand why they include it as much of the world uses it as the default for some reason I still can't understand.
~~Anyway, I love the idea and would use something like this if it allowed me to choose a configuration at order time which could include or not include a set of available apps which are curated by the manufacturer. That way, the apps are immutable and the mission of the phone is preserved. Also, a real keyboard is an absolute must for apps like maps, telegram, and SMS.~~
Looks like you can indeed uninstall and install apps as you like.
> inclusion of Meta-owned WhatsApp
just uninstall it then?
> Any company which cares about privacy
I don't think this phone or Commodore has anything to do with privacy beyond what's legally required. It's a lifestyle product.
The phone is running Sailfish OS.
The whole point of the phone is that you don't install or uninstall apps. They're there, and are immutable as far as I can tell.
_EDIT_
raffael_de is absolutely correct, apps can be installed and removed, as they have their own "app store". Apologies for creating confusion and thanks for pointing it out.
Where does it say that? You can un/install apps as you like.
I really like the concept, but I think the restrictions are a double-edged sword.
The form factor and Sailfish are a lot more appealing than 'apps blocked at a system level'.
Can it run the usual apps like banking apps which can be particular about Android 'trustworthiness'?
Unfortunately, a smartphone is a near-necessity for various things like that now.
The restrictions are a good fit for children under 16.
As a parent you want to be able to reach them, and they want to reach their friend.
And as a parent you not want them waste their minds on YouTube garbage.
As a kid you want what all other kids in your group have and do. That will not be apping via a $500 Commodore flip phone.
And as an adult that kid will thank god their parents did not get them what everyone else had when everyone else is a lobotomized idiot.
no they won't
I’ve been getting my kids KaiOS flip phones where I can disable the browser via ADB. I get a year of service and a phone for around $35 (TracPhone). There’s enough minutes that they can be used for coordinating pickups and emergencies. I’ve had nearly zero issues with the exception of ADB file transfer for music.
This looks really awesome! It's pretty hard to wrap my head around the price though. $500 USD (so $700(!!!) Canadian) is pretty bizarre for what it is.
I really want to like this, but does it bring anything new to the table? I see the same low-effort buzzwords I've seen on other "dumb" phones.
And the design…it looks like a Motorola.
> but does it bring anything new to the table?
No, but that's the point. It has all of the good parts of a smart phone, none of the bad ones. Do other dumb phones run Signal or Maps?
The Punkt. MP02 runs Signal-compatible encrypted messaging, no Maps though: https://www.punkt.ch/products/mp02-4g-minimalist-phone
Well yeah, it looks like a Motorola, and the Motorola flip phones looked like the Star Trek TOS communicators (which they acknowledged by calling their first flip phone the "StarTAC"). And the article also references Star Trek. Sure, the kind of nostalgic people that are in the market for a Commodore phone probably also have the same feelings about Star Trek, so why not...
I would possibly be interested in getting one. Sure, it's twice as expensive as other dumbphones (like TTfone TT990, Sidephone, Dumber Mini, Qin F21 Pro to name a few).
But I don't like that they have blocked all web browsers. I don't really mind that social media is blocked, I would probably not install it anyways. But a web browser... I don't really like that arbitrary apps are blocked.
I think it's the form factor and small screen size that would decrease your phone usage. So I think it would be enough with just being a flip phone with a small screen. Blocking apps feels a bit too much.
If I'm out and need to look something up, I would rather that it's a tedious experience with a small screen and T9 keyboard. Rather than not having the option at all.
Two things need to change and this would be a hit:
1/ Find My support or similar (for parents who would give this to kids) 2/ WhatsApp?????? That is the ultimate social network so it should definitely not be there by default.
What is the deal with WhatsApp? My family roped me into using it, "because it's better than text messages", we've been using it regularly for over a year, and it's... literally the same thing? I don't get it.
1. If you're not based in a country where SMS was included free, it was/is advantageous to use something delivered over the Internet, rather than carrier.
2. It allowed for sharing multimedia better.
3. It closed the divide between Android and iOS, giving a singular experience across the two systems.
4. Prior to RCS, it allowed for typing notifications, high resolution media, read receipts, etc whereas SMS did not offer these options.
5. There really isn't any additional benefit for most of these now; but, folks are already ingrained into the ecosystem.
This phone not having RCS is not great. In the US it's the closest thing to a real messaging app that you can just use with random people without pre-arranging to install Signal or something.
But it's Meta, yuck! Better use Signal or Telegram.
Right, but if absolutely everybody you know is on WhatsApp and have no desire to move to Signal or Telegram, chances are you're going to end up using WhatsApp regardless of your feelings toward Meta.
Decent support for groups. If you're in a country where WhatsApp is common, like the UK, odds are you'll end up in a dozen WhatsApp groups. Especially if you have kids. Groups for every birthday, playdate, year group in school...
And the result is just penetration, so if you're somewhere it's widespread, odds are it's going to be the preference of a lot of people.
For me, SMS is for spammy notifications. WhatsApp is where all the messages from real people I have the phone number of comes. I never get real people SMS'ing me.
What about the apps that we need but not everyone needs? Local train apps, bank identification etc.
Can't really escape it
SailfishOS runs most of Android apps fine. For bank ID, system attestation requirements might block them though.
I can imagine most people who would use this would also own a regular phone. Personally I have a couple apps like this that I would be fine on a phone I leave at home while on the go I only need messaging, maps, and uber.
Damn, I was hoping it would look like an Amiga not a CRT candy iMac
I had expected it to remind me of a bread-bin C64. A little "cassette futurism". Design language is such a big part of branding.
Would also enjoy this, it could actually look quite cool
I really want to like this, but as someone who's daily driven Sailfish before (albeit not in a while), one of the things you'll likely miss if you're in the US is group MMS support.
Maybe Commodore is paying Jolla enough that they'll be able to add group MMS support by the time this launches? But if not... it's something you might not even think could be missing, and not having it can be a problem if people expect to be able to send you group texts.
I’m more concerned about nfc payment and public transport apps not working.
I’ve worked with flip phones for years, and I think this is the first one I’ve seen with Sailfish! I didn’t see the specs, but it’s got to be comparable to a budget Android phone to run that well. I’m curious to see more of the UX, performance, and security. How does it come to an RTOS phone running Mocor, or a smart feature phone running KaiOS?
I'm torn on the blocking of web browsers. Yeah, they can be used for getting to Facebook or whatever. But they are also used to access 99% of the world's info now. Seems like if you just wanted to block social media, a DNS block or even firewall would be a better option.
As a company (or a brand name I suppose, that markets nostalgia?) they're free of course to pursue any product they like.
The retro vibes I'm getting from this one though involve "the Fonz" getting up on waterskis…
Also here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48552570 (slightly different URL)
So is there any connection with the original commodore company at all or is this just a case of “rich kid gets his hands on an old long dead IP for milking”?
Well, Perrifractic has no connection to the original Commodore in the sense of having worked there (he was a child in the heyday of the C64 and Amiga), but he isn't just some random person trying to cash in - he's a long time Youtuber focusing on Commodore and other 1980s computers and his enthusiasm is genuine.
Original Commodore went under in '94. Pretty sure this is just milking a corpse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_International
Seems a major shift in direction and a major distraction.
I don't think the renewed Commodore will last too long.
If you want a brand new C64 get em before they become .... collectors items.
I honestly don't think Perryfractic would be that sad if it doesn't last (assuming he, Lady Fractic, and child and dogs don't become homeless in the bankruptcy) He knows perfectly well that the audience for Commodore nostalgia is small and aging and is just enjoying being part of the scene while it lasts.
I don't like the look of "retro camera". A great camera is a must-have also.
And yes $500 is too much.
I disagree a great camera is a must have. This is targeting the person who wants single purpose tech rather than a do everything smartphone. If you need a camera on a trip, chuck one in your bag.
And these days a great camera isn't desirable anyway, if you go to a party now everyone is taking photos with keychain cameras like the kodak charmera or instant cameras like the fujifilm instax. These have atrocious image quality, but people like that more than modern processed iphone photos.
"Commodore"
Like "AEG" or "Grundig" or "Marantz" or "Nokia"...
Is it just a Heineken x Bodega HMD flip phone in a different shell?
Hmm I imagine using a server to connect to signal/whatsapp or even email, then using a local model to classify and filter and trim messages and forwarding to SMS, and viceversa. I guess the trouble is I’d need many source numbers :thinking:.
Go buy a TTfone tt970, you will save ~300€.
Main question: can you open it with a single hand?
price is crazy, this is cool, i need a few android apps duo, authy, and unfortunately youtube music...
I use a QR code based app locking mechanism that blocks browsers and some apps. I never turn it back on. That's all. I use a regular smartphone.
I heard this quote in many American movies: "The first way to get rid of addiction is admitting to yourself that you have no power over the substance." or something in the same vain.
I admit I am powerless over doomscrolling. I just create a barrier to entry that never expires. Solves my problems. No alpha male self control BS. Just brain chemistry-aware tricks.
If I were involuntarily injected with serious drugs, my brain would crave it. Social media is the same. No point arguing otherwise.
my kneejerk reaction was "plastic crap", but I'm happy to see Jolla getting any kind of OEM support.
Did this story really get flagged by some anti-Commodore Gen-Xer? Can't we bury the hatchet with Atarians by now? Lord have mercy.
OMG, hire some designers! It seems they took some ugly phone from early 2000s, applied some 1990s "copy the imac transparent case" aesthetic, slapped a Commodore logo on it and called it done.
I mean, yeah, it sends a visual statement and I'm sure some diehard Commodore fans will buy it, but it looks exactly like the kind of junk you'd have found for $10 in the Shenzhen knock off markets 15 years ago.
My wife and I got a flip phone for our daughter when she was in elementary school. It was inexpensive, allowed her to text us when on the school bus - gave us the connection we all needed. About a year later the pull of a phone that could run Spotify won, but for that year the flip phone really was great. And cheap.
I'm not familiar with the OS on this phone, but it sounds interesting.
But $500? Really? DOA
navigation while driving seems like it would be an issue.
get grok on it and I'm in
Meh, I find perryfractic's stuff to be more style over substance. It's interesting that he's releasing products, but not interesting enough for me to buy
$500??
what? you made choke.... Where I live, those kind of flip phones used to normal price €€ to 100something€ back then, how we ended at 500? I must ask if it's going to make coffee too haha.
Unlike many flip phones, there is smartphone hardware inside capable of running Android apps — except that it is only a curated selection from Commodore's own app store.
The cost of running the app store is probably included.
Smaller production runs also mean higher price.
BTW, early adopters can get up to $100 off. (pre-order discount + discount code in the newsletter)
Smartphones are also available for $100 today! And it doesn't even have a "premium" look - not even a metallic body.
Just nope.
[dead]
For $500 (FIVE HUNDRED) you get a $30 dumb phone with Whatsapp. Wow.
Then it's not literally for you and people who are dependent on social media. It's almost like there is a growing populace who don't want to be there 24/7. Also most people would access the needed sites or social media via laptop or desktop. Not to mention that you feel that it's "corny nostalgia-bait" gives me vibes that you are younger than the target audience of this device even is.
I use zero social medias and I have a phone that wouldn’t tell me no if I (a grown adult) did want to use them.
In fact I’d believe this is exactly for social media addicts because needing to be blocked from even accessing the domains by your OS to not use them is truly something.
And it is nostalgia bait. Wide sweeping nostalgia bait (C64 and Y2K). Corny nostalgia bait because surfing on pre social media Internet and Y2K aesthetics has been an overdone low-hanging fruit for at least 2 years already.
My main problem is the price. This has barely any more capabilities than a burner AliExpress dumbphone. Their margin is most likely egregious (because you’re paying for nostalgia bait).
I wouldn't worry so much about it. Why spend time even thinking about something you don't want to buy?
?
How exactly do you expect me to know I don’t want to buy something without thinking about it first ?
A product was presented to me -> I analyzed the product’s specs -> I compared those specs to the product’s asking price -> I concluded the asking price was too high for the specs -> I concluded I do not want to buy the product
I didn’t think about this any more or less than I should’ve.
The new Commodore seems to see itself not as a retro nostalgia vintage computer company, but an anti social media company - which explains this product.