> If you are asking “Why should I support AI efforts at all?” I believe we are in the midst of a transition more vibrant than the industrial revolution. Opinions formed a couple of years ago about the uselessness of AI are no longer valid. Millions of people and organizations are getting great returns from using it, and the demand for data centers is the market responding to the value signal. That is how progress is made!
Seems like a sort of shallow argument. The industrial revolution also had these same sorts of problems. Few are going to be enthused about living next to a dirty coal power plant either.
It's rational for people push back against projects that create problems for them, with no compensating upside.
> It's rational for people push back against projects that create problems for them, with no compensating upside.
This in itself is a shallow argument. While it is rational in isolation for a given static mindset, it's not rational for anyone who looks at society, and the economy as a larger dynamic system that they have. multiple points of access to. I assume that is basis for the argument John is making. I've read his biography and ofcourse seen his work, so I'm pretty sure this is not a guy who has ever had a static relationship with the world!
John Carmack will never have to live near a data center’s constant droning noise. He’ll never have to breathe the toxic poison spewed by its gas turbines. He won’t be feel the impact of rising energy prices.
Feels like a another out of touch ivory tower argument from another generational talent that filled their bags ages ago and no longer relates to common folk.
Which is funny, since Notch is who he is replying to.
Notch is worth hundreds of millions more and will never have to live in anything but a multi-million dollar mansion either.
The nucular energy point is sound, although data centers aren't even remotely close to the usefulness of cheap, reliable and "green" energy. Right now DCs are being used to generate slop, make everyone dumber and push more spyware.
>I consider it a tragedy that anti-nuclear efforts largely strangled nuclear power in the US based on vibes
This is not a strong analogy in support of AI data centers. Power utilities are heavily-regulated with controls over impact, public access, and ratemaking. There are none of those public benefit controls in place for data centers. Defending AI economics because opposition is 'vibes' is ludicrously one-sided.
> If you are asking “Why should I support AI efforts at all?” I believe we are in the midst of a transition more vibrant than the industrial revolution. Opinions formed a couple of years ago about the uselessness of AI are no longer valid. Millions of people and organizations are getting great returns from using it, and the demand for data centers is the market responding to the value signal. That is how progress is made!
Seems like a sort of shallow argument. The industrial revolution also had these same sorts of problems. Few are going to be enthused about living next to a dirty coal power plant either.
It's rational for people push back against projects that create problems for them, with no compensating upside.
> It's rational for people push back against projects that create problems for them, with no compensating upside.
This in itself is a shallow argument. While it is rational in isolation for a given static mindset, it's not rational for anyone who looks at society, and the economy as a larger dynamic system that they have. multiple points of access to. I assume that is basis for the argument John is making. I've read his biography and ofcourse seen his work, so I'm pretty sure this is not a guy who has ever had a static relationship with the world!
John Carmack will never have to live near a data center’s constant droning noise. He’ll never have to breathe the toxic poison spewed by its gas turbines. He won’t be feel the impact of rising energy prices.
Feels like a another out of touch ivory tower argument from another generational talent that filled their bags ages ago and no longer relates to common folk.
Which is funny, since Notch is who he is replying to.
Notch is worth hundreds of millions more and will never have to live in anything but a multi-million dollar mansion either.
The nucular energy point is sound, although data centers aren't even remotely close to the usefulness of cheap, reliable and "green" energy. Right now DCs are being used to generate slop, make everyone dumber and push more spyware.
Compaing AI datacenters (which haven't proved to benefit most people, especially the ones near such DC) to nuclear is a really dumb analogy.
Agreed
>I consider it a tragedy that anti-nuclear efforts largely strangled nuclear power in the US based on vibes
This is not a strong analogy in support of AI data centers. Power utilities are heavily-regulated with controls over impact, public access, and ratemaking. There are none of those public benefit controls in place for data centers. Defending AI economics because opposition is 'vibes' is ludicrously one-sided.
For convenience: https://xcancel.com/i/status/2069486595917402117