They don't want grocery stores to carry product that's too old because customers will try it and decide they don't like it, not realizing that it's old. And a grocery store worker won't know when to get rid of it unless someone tells them.
And from a grocery store's point of view, product that's on the shelf too long isn't selling. It's taking up space that could be used for something else.
I'm pretty sure food producers are the ones putting the "sell by" labels on stuff, with the hope that people will needlessly throw away food and buy more because of that label.
>With 395,608 regulatory restrictions, California is the most heavily regulated state in the nation, according to the report. On average, states have 135,000 regulatory restrictions in administrative rules, with California's regulations more than doubling the national average.
Well despite all that regulation, they're an economic powerhouse, they must be doing something right. CA is far from perfect but at least they occasionally aspire to do something for the benefit of their citizens - not something I can say for my 'least regulated' state that mostly just saps money from the federal government.
N=1 but I make a good amount of money and left California for a zero tax state.
I feel like the quality of life is similar between the two. I don't feel like I was getting anything for the 13%+ extra taxes I was paying in California.
Nearly every California program has a huge amount of wastage. Take:
- High speed rail - 10x the cost of comparable European programs, still haven't built anything. Deadlocked by regulation, lawsuits, and poor planning.
- Or all the fraud in the hospice program, unchecked for years until some YouTuber just... went up to one and made a video.
- Or spending over $1M/homeless on housing the homeless and not being able to do so.
California is a lot of talk (regulations, state programs, taxes) coupled with extremely poor execution.
I moved out of CA and overall, I myself get more for my money. All of those taxes didn't benefit me.
And just like you describe, it would've been ok if all of the tax money went to the people it was meant to be, but unfortunately CA is built upon n number of middle man companies who each take something off the top.
Of course you expect to get something back. Cleaner streets, better public transit, fewer homeless, less crime, etc.
For example, I would be happy paying those 13% taxes in Switzerland, Japan, the Netherlands, Singapore! (Some even have lower taxes.) But I felt that money was being totally wasted in California.
I genuinely think CA is something like <10% as efficient with tax money as these countries, and it's largely because certain groups take it as a personal attack when you imply tax inefficiency is a problem.
Despite all their problems, Detroit was an economic powerhouse. Motor city was a world class city, and they bid to host the Olympics eight times between 1944 and 1972. Detroit was far from perfect, but it seems like eventually their bad choices caught up with them. Detroit is no longer the world class city or economic powerhouse it once was.
They're sitting at the centre of a web of software services that coordinate some unreasonable amount of the internet. They've definitely done something right, California might be hosting one of the most impressive economic clusters outside of China.
But that doesn't tell us much about the relationship between that thing and their regulations. The regulations might be supporting the thing, or the thing might be so successful that the damage being done by the regulations becomes tolerable. It's entirely plausible that if other states attempted that level of regulation they'd crumple like tissue paper because they don't have the economic power of California's IT sector to balance out the excess demands being placed on businesses.
I know nothing about nothing, but I always assumed that all the money was from Hollywood and Silicon Valley. Outside of those two highly localized industries, is there really much more money than other states have?
Thanks for providing it, but Sectors chart seems wrong. "The Information sector includes some of the nation's largest technology and entertainment companies like Apple, Meta, Disney, and HP." Putting Disney in the Information sector rather than the Arts and Entertainment sector seems like a really bad categorization. I have to wonder if that severely under-counts the Arts and Entertainment sector.
Because of the power CA has, many of the regulations they pass around health and safety end up benefiting other states because it's cheaper to simply implement it nationwide.
* ARL / Automatic Renewal Law: If a company allows you to sign up for a subscription online, they also must provide an immediate, straightforward way to cancel it online.
* SB 478: No bullshit junk fees tacked on to prices. Any price displayed, be it for concerts, hotels, or whatever else, must be the full, out-the-door price.
* SB 244: Right to Repair: Electronics and appliance manufacturers must make diagnostic tools, manuals etc available for at least 7 years after manufacture.
However, California's CARS Act, which took effect July 1, 2025, prohibits misrepresentations about the costs or terms of purchasing, financing, or leasing a vehicle, including the availability of vehicles at an advertised price.
Dealers should be required to list the title/plate fees and their processing fee but stuff like dealer options and markup are required to be on a seperate sticker.
America has such an aversion to including taxes on a listed price so I doubt that will ever be included.
> * Just look at the actual checkout price like everyone else
Why should I have to go through the entire process just to see the price? Have you ever been in a store that has the tax added onto the price tag? It is very nice to not have to do mental math.
Because it isn't very important and the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. Although it does seem appropriate that everyone should know the price of something before they buy it, as long as it happens before the money is handed over that is fine.
> the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers.
I think this is the crux of our disagreement. In my experience, the more degrees of freedom the seller has, the more chances to fuck you over they have.
I think - and this might be my European perspective and maybe why we feel differently about regulations than Americans - the main source of risk is corporations trying to take advantage of you, not the government. Curbing said risk through regulations is a core part of good governance.
If you let yourself get taken advantage of by corporations the result is substantially higher median incomes [0]. I remain unconvinced that adopting an adversarial stance toward the people who are trying to give you real stuff is the best strategy. Cooperation and forming a consensus with them seems like a better path.
What, you don't run through the checkout process on each of 100 different Airbnb listings and compile a spreadsheet of results to ascertain the true prices after fees and charges? That's gotta be the best part of vacation planning after buying plane tickets!
This is a pretty nothing law when you look into it.
All it does is standardize "sell by" labels to be more transparent. The extent of the ban is the explicit phrasing "Sell By" which is itself confusing since the manufacturer has some estimated consumption interval that is tacked onto their actual expiration date. Sell By gives the customer has no idea how much padding they are adding to their estimate and when the thing actually goes bad.
All this law really does is it standardizes the labels manufacturers can use to "BEST if Used by" for quality concerns or "USE by" for safety concerns. A lot of manufacturers already do this, so it is a pretty minimal law There are probably more pressing issues in Sacramento, but a small improvement is always welcome.
Yeah. I'd agree. This is a pretty quick and easy law with very few downsides. There is also a "good house keeping" aspect to this. The habit of keeping a house clean and tidy makes it easier to do the bigger and more substantive improvements. I'm a bit surprised that New York Times is reporting on such a small law passed so far away or that there are such negative comments about such laws here, but such is life.
I don’t think it’s a nothing law. Not only does it help with reducing waste, but also a food safety thing.
“Best by” or “best is used by” or “expiry dates” are pretty clear: use the product before the date.
In my own case, we have a brand of bread that does “sell by”. There is not uniform standard on how many days after the date, the bread is safe to consume. Internet wisdom gives you a wide range.
In the end, standardization of this type of things can only be good even if the effect on waste is small. There is no need to create additional ways to confuse people.
> Experts say the term “sell by” is generally for retailers to know when to rotate inventory, compared with labels like “best if used by” and “use by,” which indicate quality.
...
> Under the state’s bill, “sell by” dates can still be included on products as long as they are “coded” — information that is aimed at retailers rather than consumers.
This is about obfuscating "sell by" dates so customers don't get confused. They might not necessarily add another date you can read easily. Then if the grocery store forgets to replace old stock, you will never know.
But maybe someone can write an app to read the codes?
I’m not sure what to focus on in that site, what did you have in mind?
Agg uses like 80% of consumer water. Almost all of this is land that has only been farmed since the Feds build a bunch of water projects starting in the 30s.
Most of the irrigated farm land is owned by big corporations and extremely wealthy families. They push a narrative of mismanagement and shortages to get urban areas to use less and less while they resist investing in better irrigation methods.
We should be able to skim the headlines and get an accurate impression of the news items of the moment.
This headline seems intentionally misleading. It should have been clear to the publisher that it would be interpreted this way. Intentionally inflammatory clickbait titles poison the information ecosystem.
(That being said - yes, commenting on something you have not read does as well!)
Did you read what they are replacing it with? I.e., "best if used by" (indicating the time the item is at its best quality), "best if frozen by", and "use by" (indicating when the food is and isn't safe to eat). Because those seem much more clear and useful to me than the useless "sell by" date.
The law standardizes language around expiration dates, aiming to minimize confusion about when food is safe to eat. More than one-third of food sold nationwide is wasted, the U.S.D.A. says.
I'm curious why food producers didn't do this on their own, since no one likes "sell by" anyway? Or was there an existing regulation that got changed?
In any case I think the new way is better.
They don't want grocery stores to carry product that's too old because customers will try it and decide they don't like it, not realizing that it's old. And a grocery store worker won't know when to get rid of it unless someone tells them.
And from a grocery store's point of view, product that's on the shelf too long isn't selling. It's taking up space that could be used for something else.
I'm pretty sure food producers are the ones putting the "sell by" labels on stuff, with the hope that people will needlessly throw away food and buy more because of that label.
Presumably food producers benefit if people throw things out earlier, as they will buy more ?
Can't rip the plastic wrap off to smell for rottenness.
Absorbent pad adds to the price also hides the "purge".
Harder to find meat without thousand poked holes (tenderizing)
Can't tell if meat are colorized to hide browness.
Time for me to visit my local butcher for a quarter cow, butchered.
Also a bigger freezer chest too!
"Packed On" or "Processed On" is the most accurate way to label meat, IMHO.
You're not charged for the absorbent pad anymore than you're charged for the packaging. You can weigh the meat when you get home to verify yourself
>With 395,608 regulatory restrictions, California is the most heavily regulated state in the nation, according to the report. On average, states have 135,000 regulatory restrictions in administrative rules, with California's regulations more than doubling the national average.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-11-03/...
I wonder how many they've added in 5 years. Do all these laws improve peoples lives?
Well despite all that regulation, they're an economic powerhouse, they must be doing something right. CA is far from perfect but at least they occasionally aspire to do something for the benefit of their citizens - not something I can say for my 'least regulated' state that mostly just saps money from the federal government.
N=1 but I make a good amount of money and left California for a zero tax state.
I feel like the quality of life is similar between the two. I don't feel like I was getting anything for the 13%+ extra taxes I was paying in California.
Nearly every California program has a huge amount of wastage. Take:
- High speed rail - 10x the cost of comparable European programs, still haven't built anything. Deadlocked by regulation, lawsuits, and poor planning.
- Or all the fraud in the hospice program, unchecked for years until some YouTuber just... went up to one and made a video.
- Or spending over $1M/homeless on housing the homeless and not being able to do so.
California is a lot of talk (regulations, state programs, taxes) coupled with extremely poor execution.
I moved out of CA and overall, I myself get more for my money. All of those taxes didn't benefit me.
And just like you describe, it would've been ok if all of the tax money went to the people it was meant to be, but unfortunately CA is built upon n number of middle man companies who each take something off the top.
> I don't feel like I was getting anything for the 13%+ extra taxes I was paying in California.
Some people might argue that it's not meant to be about what you personally get back. Social contract and all that...
I get your other points but this part was phrased in an unfortunate way.
Of course you expect to get something back. Cleaner streets, better public transit, fewer homeless, less crime, etc.
For example, I would be happy paying those 13% taxes in Switzerland, Japan, the Netherlands, Singapore! (Some even have lower taxes.) But I felt that money was being totally wasted in California.
I genuinely think CA is something like <10% as efficient with tax money as these countries, and it's largely because certain groups take it as a personal attack when you imply tax inefficiency is a problem.
Despite all their problems, Detroit was an economic powerhouse. Motor city was a world class city, and they bid to host the Olympics eight times between 1944 and 1972. Detroit was far from perfect, but it seems like eventually their bad choices caught up with them. Detroit is no longer the world class city or economic powerhouse it once was.
They're sitting at the centre of a web of software services that coordinate some unreasonable amount of the internet. They've definitely done something right, California might be hosting one of the most impressive economic clusters outside of China.
But that doesn't tell us much about the relationship between that thing and their regulations. The regulations might be supporting the thing, or the thing might be so successful that the damage being done by the regulations becomes tolerable. It's entirely plausible that if other states attempted that level of regulation they'd crumple like tissue paper because they don't have the economic power of California's IT sector to balance out the excess demands being placed on businesses.
> they're an economic powerhouse
Could be inertia.
I know nothing about nothing, but I always assumed that all the money was from Hollywood and Silicon Valley. Outside of those two highly localized industries, is there really much more money than other states have?
It has it's own wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California
Thanks for providing it, but Sectors chart seems wrong. "The Information sector includes some of the nation's largest technology and entertainment companies like Apple, Meta, Disney, and HP." Putting Disney in the Information sector rather than the Arts and Entertainment sector seems like a really bad categorization. I have to wonder if that severely under-counts the Arts and Entertainment sector.
Regulations aren't fungible, so this is not a particularly meaningful perspective.
Because of the power CA has, many of the regulations they pass around health and safety end up benefiting other states because it's cheaper to simply implement it nationwide.
Is there a reason to think these should or should not scale with size of population?
All of them? No. Some of them? Yes.
Some examples:
* ARL / Automatic Renewal Law: If a company allows you to sign up for a subscription online, they also must provide an immediate, straightforward way to cancel it online.
* SB 478: No bullshit junk fees tacked on to prices. Any price displayed, be it for concerts, hotels, or whatever else, must be the full, out-the-door price.
* SB 244: Right to Repair: Electronics and appliance manufacturers must make diagnostic tools, manuals etc available for at least 7 years after manufacture.
Does SB478 apply to car dealerships? That would be a huge boon to consumers on its own.
Car dealerships were exempt from SB 478.
However, California's CARS Act, which took effect July 1, 2025, prohibits misrepresentations about the costs or terms of purchasing, financing, or leasing a vehicle, including the availability of vehicles at an advertised price.
which would already be covered under general fraud
Dealers should be required to list the title/plate fees and their processing fee but stuff like dealer options and markup are required to be on a seperate sticker.
America has such an aversion to including taxes on a listed price so I doubt that will ever be included.
[flagged]
> * Just look at the actual checkout price like everyone else
Why should I have to go through the entire process just to see the price? Have you ever been in a store that has the tax added onto the price tag? It is very nice to not have to do mental math.
Because it isn't very important and the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers. Although it does seem appropriate that everyone should know the price of something before they buy it, as long as it happens before the money is handed over that is fine.
cheaper for customers??? What world do you live in where sellers care about customers?
> the more degrees of freedom the seller has the more likely they are to do something to make the whole process cheaper for customers.
I think this is the crux of our disagreement. In my experience, the more degrees of freedom the seller has, the more chances to fuck you over they have.
I think - and this might be my European perspective and maybe why we feel differently about regulations than Americans - the main source of risk is corporations trying to take advantage of you, not the government. Curbing said risk through regulations is a core part of good governance.
If you let yourself get taken advantage of by corporations the result is substantially higher median incomes [0]. I remain unconvinced that adopting an adversarial stance toward the people who are trying to give you real stuff is the best strategy. Cooperation and forming a consensus with them seems like a better path.
[0] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/median-income-after-tax-l...
I think this, too, is a case of cultural differences. This ranking [0] seems much more meaningful to me than the one you linked.
[0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-fo...
What, you don't run through the checkout process on each of 100 different Airbnb listings and compile a spreadsheet of results to ascertain the true prices after fees and charges? That's gotta be the best part of vacation planning after buying plane tickets!
I'm not an American at all.
And all of these are definitely worse than just making the vendor behave properly...
I hope they refactor and harmonize them at some point to reduce duplication, contradiction as well as proliferation.
This is a pretty nothing law when you look into it.
All it does is standardize "sell by" labels to be more transparent. The extent of the ban is the explicit phrasing "Sell By" which is itself confusing since the manufacturer has some estimated consumption interval that is tacked onto their actual expiration date. Sell By gives the customer has no idea how much padding they are adding to their estimate and when the thing actually goes bad.
All this law really does is it standardizes the labels manufacturers can use to "BEST if Used by" for quality concerns or "USE by" for safety concerns. A lot of manufacturers already do this, so it is a pretty minimal law There are probably more pressing issues in Sacramento, but a small improvement is always welcome.
To be fair, if we waited until there "no more pressing issues", then we'd never get any "quality of life" regulations passed like this.
Yeah. I'd agree. This is a pretty quick and easy law with very few downsides. There is also a "good house keeping" aspect to this. The habit of keeping a house clean and tidy makes it easier to do the bigger and more substantive improvements. I'm a bit surprised that New York Times is reporting on such a small law passed so far away or that there are such negative comments about such laws here, but such is life.
I don’t think it’s a nothing law. Not only does it help with reducing waste, but also a food safety thing. “Best by” or “best is used by” or “expiry dates” are pretty clear: use the product before the date.
In my own case, we have a brand of bread that does “sell by”. There is not uniform standard on how many days after the date, the bread is safe to consume. Internet wisdom gives you a wide range.
In the end, standardization of this type of things can only be good even if the effect on waste is small. There is no need to create additional ways to confuse people.
> Experts say the term “sell by” is generally for retailers to know when to rotate inventory, compared with labels like “best if used by” and “use by,” which indicate quality.
...
> Under the state’s bill, “sell by” dates can still be included on products as long as they are “coded” — information that is aimed at retailers rather than consumers.
This is about obfuscating "sell by" dates so customers don't get confused. They might not necessarily add another date you can read easily. Then if the grocery store forgets to replace old stock, you will never know.
But maybe someone can write an app to read the codes?
Previous discussion when the bill was passed in 2024: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41765006
It’s be pretty cool if they figured out their water problem instead of passing all these nebulous laws that don’t push the needle any.
The only water problems are for farmers growing in a semi-arid valley. California has droughts, not water shortages.
Not the /only/ water problems... https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/conservation/regs/water_effic...
I’m not sure what to focus on in that site, what did you have in mind?
Agg uses like 80% of consumer water. Almost all of this is land that has only been farmed since the Feds build a bunch of water projects starting in the 30s.
Most of the irrigated farm land is owned by big corporations and extremely wealthy families. They push a narrative of mismanagement and shortages to get urban areas to use less and less while they resist investing in better irrigation methods.
can’t wait for a new Regulatory Liability fee to be added to checks here
We should ban the sale of band-aids, so that people stop injuring themselves.
"Sell by" is instead replaced with clearer, more standardized wording. Please at least read the (very short) article before posting.
To be fair, it's a bad title.
We should be able to skim the headlines and get an accurate impression of the news items of the moment.
This headline seems intentionally misleading. It should have been clear to the publisher that it would be interpreted this way. Intentionally inflammatory clickbait titles poison the information ecosystem.
(That being said - yes, commenting on something you have not read does as well!)
Agreed. In this case, a better title would be "California replaces 'Sell by' Labels with 'Use by', Hoping to Cut Food Waste"
Still a simplification, but doesn't horribly mislead you into thinking it's a reckless policy.
How does this change affect food waste by consumers?
Did you read what they are replacing it with? I.e., "best if used by" (indicating the time the item is at its best quality), "best if frozen by", and "use by" (indicating when the food is and isn't safe to eat). Because those seem much more clear and useful to me than the useless "sell by" date.
The subtitle:
The law standardizes language around expiration dates, aiming to minimize confusion about when food is safe to eat. More than one-third of food sold nationwide is wasted, the U.S.D.A. says.
The explanation is in the subtitle. Didn't even have to read the article on this one.