This was a fantastic read. I had no idea how much of Terminator 2 had to be invented from scratch. It's amazing to think that a lot of the tools and ideas that shaped modern VFX started with engineers just trying to solve one impossible problem after another.
Some films really do stand the test of time, I'm not really sure that contemporary CGI will really age as well.
Not the disaster of a print they have for the 4k masters. It's upscaled using 2010 tech and amazing deficient, but to Cameron, I'm the problem, so it actually looks better on DVD
True Lies as well!
I noticed last week the print on AppleTV in 4k had a lot of GenAI artifacts in it (things being optically impossibly sharp, skin detail).
I looked and yes, it was processed around 2022. I’m sure if they tried again with better models it would be better. Is that the future of film preservation?
The source I read also said that the fucking DVD remains the best available copy of True Lies.
Recommend "Jurassic Punk" (2022) - the documentary about Steve ‘Spaz’ Williams who is featured in this interview. It covers T2 as well as Jurassic park and goes into the politics inside ILM,
Can anyone confirm that the helicopter flying over the underpass was actual flying and not VFX or a chopper on a trailer?
There are claims that the stunt pilot flew under (twice!), but it seems like no amount of skill could avoid weird uncontrollable effects from rotor wash.
It's interesting the bridge blocking the rotors didn't make it fall... maybe it's like a pressurized zone of air/ground effect... it's not a perfect vacuum
The link in this thread says the camera team refused to participate so the shot in the film was just James Cameron holding a camera in the back of a truck. Nobody else around to film BTS footage.
I'm not sure that anyone under the age of 45-50 can truly appreciate just how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be. Like, nothing in the MCU era or the Star Wars prequels and sequels comes remotely close. Yes, they gross a lot of money but in terms of cultural significance, I've seen nothing close.
At the time I lived in a city when the local movie theaters would typically run major releases on 1, maybe 2 screens. Session times were like 11am, 2pm, 5pm, 8pm 6 days a week and I think 1 less on Sundays. This was before the age of smaller theaters in the large multiplexes so a big movie theater might only have 4-8 screens.
3 weeks after T2 was released, it was still showing on screens in my local movie theater for 12-15 sessions a day, even on Sunday, from 8am til midnight. I actually waited a couple of weeks for the hype to die down and went on an 8am Sunday session knowing basically nothing (because that's how things worked then) and the movie theater was still full.
The CGI was a big part of it. It has some fan service to it. My movie theater cheered when Arnie came out of the bar wearing the leathers and hopped on the bike. But it's not overboard. It's actually a really great story, which is kinda unusual for a sequel. Like, James Cameron really has to be commended for that.
But there was another aspect too and that was Linda Hamilton. This was one of the first mainstream big-budget movies that changed the way women were portrayed in film. Lots of people had posters of her wearing the sunglasses, carrying weapons, etc. It was actually a really big deal.
The 90s really was a golden era for movies. Like I used to go 1-2 times a week and just watch whatever was on, basically. I don't think I've been to a movie theater since Avengers End Game and even in the 2010s it was a 2-3 times a year thing max.
But it is amazing how much they did with CGI in the early 1990s for T2.
> But there was another aspect too and that was Linda Hamilton. This was one of the first mainstream big-budget movies that changed the way women were portrayed in film. Lots of people had posters of her wearing the sunglasses, carrying weapons, etc. It was actually a really big deal.
Yes, a strong female character in big budget movies wasn't a common theme. Aliens 2 also had a strong female protagonist played by Sigourney Weaver. The movie was also directed by James Cameron.
Terminator 2 was a huge cultural phenomenon. I remember going to the movie theater with my Dad to see it. I think it was the first R rated movie I saw in the theater, so it was something that we bonded over. Many of my friends had a similar experience.
I wouldn't say she was always wrong. I get her methodology wasn't always right or appealing, but she did inspire a lot of girls, which is a good thing.
My initiation was the first Alien movie on VCR. I watched it maybe in 1990 or 1991, but definitely before I reach 10 years old. It was also the first movie that I watched. The movie scared the shit out of me for months afterwards.
When looking back, all these movies (Alien, Terminator 2, and Jurassic park) were very well done. They never tried to achieve anything that was out of reach back then, and story-wise they were simply very entertaining. They didn't rely on, say, pornography (some movies clearly had too many naked men/women) to appease to their customers. The characters felt like real human-being who can hate and love strongly. They were done so well that it felt like nature. Movies nowadays couldn't do that anymore, somehow.
> how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be. Like, nothing in the MCU era or the Star Wars prequels and sequels comes remotely close
I'm in that age range and I lived through T2 and Endgame and I'll have to disagree.
T2 is one of my favorite movies of all time but experiencing the Endgame premiere, as a hardcore fan, with the other hardcore fans, was something else, it had the whole teather howling during the climax.
I also get that T2 is "easier" to enjoy in the sense that you need to watch like 22 movies to really get into Endgame.
Endgame is basically "camp" (though large as camps go) at this point, and I mean that in a nice way, like how Rocky Horror Picture Show evoke similar audience reactions.
But T2 references were everywhere and people not in to movies or action or sci-fi or pop culture knew and know them.
This is true, it was a big cultural moment, but the level to which they sold the absolute heck out of that film should not be understated. It was one of the first times I can clearly remember where a film came along at roughly the same time as all the secondary IP like games and merch, and seemingly more and more kept coming. Another film from around that time which had a similar media blitz was Alien 3, released the year after.
In an age where cabinet video games and arcades were passé and a dying breed, Terminator 2 introduced an absolutely epic pinball game that started a renaissance of these machines all over again.
i would like to see a plot of the population of paleontologists starting from about 6-10 years after Jurassic Park was released. I suspect we'd see a bump starting around the time all the kids who saw Jurassic Park when it came out started graduating college.
We had Denver and Barney and The Land Before Time but kids suddenly memorizing all the latin names of each species was not a thing before Jurassic Park. (I think.)
I saw it in theaters, but was too young to be tuned in to the cultural significance. As someone who has watched it 6-7 times (including on laserdisc and as recently as 3 weeks ago), I can attest that it is a perfect movie. Frame for frame, everything is done with a purpose.
> I'm not sure that anyone under the age of 45-50 can truly appreciate just how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be.
100% agreed. Really was a magical time.
For me what "infinite CGI" has done is completely dull the wow factor of literally any movie. Decades ago the effects of T2 and others blew everyone's minds in a way people who weren't around can't comprehend. CGI was brand new and special effects really felt like you were witnessing elaborate magic tricks (since that's what they were).
Now we've seen movies do basically everything and the answer to "how'd they do that???" is just "yeah they used CGI." And CGI still doesn't feel grounded in reality like practical effects do.
Disappointed this only focuses on the contemporary technology used in making the (admittedly amazing) visual effects for the film, which has been addressed multiple times across various formats. When I first watched T2 as a kid the thing which grabbed me more was that gadget John Connor uses to hack the ATM and all the cool stuff in the Cyberdyne offices. It would be nice if someone wrote an article discussing that aspect of the film, for the record and posterity's sake.
Amazing writeup! I'll add that the custom squibs they made for the liquid metal bullet impacts are still one of the best practical effects ever.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/v6qjaj/bu...
[delayed]
They also used a practical effect for the scenes where the T-1000 needed to appear on screen at the same time as a character it had shapeshifted into.
They cast identical twins for the roles.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MovieDetails/comments/h9rzry/in_ter...
Holy shit. I thought the bullet splashes were CGI. I'm even more impressed that they were real practical effects, that is indeed nextfuckinglevel
The 4K remaster of this is back in theatres next month for “Judgment Day” and the 35th anniversary.
https://www.fathomentertainment.com/news/fathom-entertainmen...
The preview they released is so smudged though, like they tried to denoize it.
That would be the 29th anniversary, because the in-universe Judgement Day was in 1997.
It's worth mentionning that Softimage was used for Terminator 2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softimage_(company)
https://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/remembering-softimage/
This was a fantastic read. I had no idea how much of Terminator 2 had to be invented from scratch. It's amazing to think that a lot of the tools and ideas that shaped modern VFX started with engineers just trying to solve one impossible problem after another.
Some films really do stand the test of time, I'm not really sure that contemporary CGI will really age as well.
Not the disaster of a print they have for the 4k masters. It's upscaled using 2010 tech and amazing deficient, but to Cameron, I'm the problem, so it actually looks better on DVD
True Lies as well! I noticed last week the print on AppleTV in 4k had a lot of GenAI artifacts in it (things being optically impossibly sharp, skin detail).
I looked and yes, it was processed around 2022. I’m sure if they tried again with better models it would be better. Is that the future of film preservation?
The source I read also said that the fucking DVD remains the best available copy of True Lies.
Recommend "Jurassic Punk" (2022) - the documentary about Steve ‘Spaz’ Williams who is featured in this interview. It covers T2 as well as Jurassic park and goes into the politics inside ILM,
Nextlander (former Giant Bomb NYC crew) did a fun episode on this documentary.
Can anyone confirm that the helicopter flying over the underpass was actual flying and not VFX or a chopper on a trailer?
There are claims that the stunt pilot flew under (twice!), but it seems like no amount of skill could avoid weird uncontrollable effects from rotor wash.
https://nedhardy.com/2023/02/12/terminator-2-helicopter/
It's interesting the bridge blocking the rotors didn't make it fall... maybe it's like a pressurized zone of air/ground effect... it's not a perfect vacuum
I saw claims for that in multiple sources. I think they initially wanted to do CG but it was too hard back then so the pilot did it anyway.
It seems so weird that there's no "behind the scenes" type footage.
The link in this thread says the camera team refused to participate so the shot in the film was just James Cameron holding a camera in the back of a truck. Nobody else around to film BTS footage.
After the Twilight Zone tragedy, I wouldn’t get involved in such shenanigans either!
There was a behind-the-scenes some years ago, in which they showed: A lot of effects werent GFX, but actual scene/scenerie building
Amazing. Photoshop wasn't even a year old when they were doing this.
I'm not sure that anyone under the age of 45-50 can truly appreciate just how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be. Like, nothing in the MCU era or the Star Wars prequels and sequels comes remotely close. Yes, they gross a lot of money but in terms of cultural significance, I've seen nothing close.
At the time I lived in a city when the local movie theaters would typically run major releases on 1, maybe 2 screens. Session times were like 11am, 2pm, 5pm, 8pm 6 days a week and I think 1 less on Sundays. This was before the age of smaller theaters in the large multiplexes so a big movie theater might only have 4-8 screens.
3 weeks after T2 was released, it was still showing on screens in my local movie theater for 12-15 sessions a day, even on Sunday, from 8am til midnight. I actually waited a couple of weeks for the hype to die down and went on an 8am Sunday session knowing basically nothing (because that's how things worked then) and the movie theater was still full.
The CGI was a big part of it. It has some fan service to it. My movie theater cheered when Arnie came out of the bar wearing the leathers and hopped on the bike. But it's not overboard. It's actually a really great story, which is kinda unusual for a sequel. Like, James Cameron really has to be commended for that.
But there was another aspect too and that was Linda Hamilton. This was one of the first mainstream big-budget movies that changed the way women were portrayed in film. Lots of people had posters of her wearing the sunglasses, carrying weapons, etc. It was actually a really big deal.
The 90s really was a golden era for movies. Like I used to go 1-2 times a week and just watch whatever was on, basically. I don't think I've been to a movie theater since Avengers End Game and even in the 2010s it was a 2-3 times a year thing max.
But it is amazing how much they did with CGI in the early 1990s for T2.
> But there was another aspect too and that was Linda Hamilton. This was one of the first mainstream big-budget movies that changed the way women were portrayed in film. Lots of people had posters of her wearing the sunglasses, carrying weapons, etc. It was actually a really big deal.
Yes, a strong female character in big budget movies wasn't a common theme. Aliens 2 also had a strong female protagonist played by Sigourney Weaver. The movie was also directed by James Cameron.
Terminator 2 was a huge cultural phenomenon. I remember going to the movie theater with my Dad to see it. I think it was the first R rated movie I saw in the theater, so it was something that we bonded over. Many of my friends had a similar experience.
I think Scully in the X-Files also inspired a lot of girls to study STEM.
Scully was always wrong, though. Is that really who people wanted to become?
I wouldn't say she was always wrong. I get her methodology wasn't always right or appealing, but she did inspire a lot of girls, which is a good thing.
My initiation was the first Alien movie on VCR. I watched it maybe in 1990 or 1991, but definitely before I reach 10 years old. It was also the first movie that I watched. The movie scared the shit out of me for months afterwards.
When looking back, all these movies (Alien, Terminator 2, and Jurassic park) were very well done. They never tried to achieve anything that was out of reach back then, and story-wise they were simply very entertaining. They didn't rely on, say, pornography (some movies clearly had too many naked men/women) to appease to their customers. The characters felt like real human-being who can hate and love strongly. They were done so well that it felt like nature. Movies nowadays couldn't do that anymore, somehow.
> how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be. Like, nothing in the MCU era or the Star Wars prequels and sequels comes remotely close
I'm in that age range and I lived through T2 and Endgame and I'll have to disagree.
T2 is one of my favorite movies of all time but experiencing the Endgame premiere, as a hardcore fan, with the other hardcore fans, was something else, it had the whole teather howling during the climax.
I also get that T2 is "easier" to enjoy in the sense that you need to watch like 22 movies to really get into Endgame.
Endgame is basically "camp" (though large as camps go) at this point, and I mean that in a nice way, like how Rocky Horror Picture Show evoke similar audience reactions.
But T2 references were everywhere and people not in to movies or action or sci-fi or pop culture knew and know them.
This is true, it was a big cultural moment, but the level to which they sold the absolute heck out of that film should not be understated. It was one of the first times I can clearly remember where a film came along at roughly the same time as all the secondary IP like games and merch, and seemingly more and more kept coming. Another film from around that time which had a similar media blitz was Alien 3, released the year after.
In an age where cabinet video games and arcades were passé and a dying breed, Terminator 2 introduced an absolutely epic pinball game that started a renaissance of these machines all over again.
Yes, I remember that table with the T800 skull. It was indeed epic.
I think Jurassic Park was pretty similar craziness. Definitely pushing the CGI aspect, and super super popular.
Like T2, Jurassic Park is a blend of CGI with practical effects and animatronics. JP only had 63 CGI scenes with many more practical effects.
https://www.highbrowmagazine.com/20027-why-jurassic-park-s-s...
i would like to see a plot of the population of paleontologists starting from about 6-10 years after Jurassic Park was released. I suspect we'd see a bump starting around the time all the kids who saw Jurassic Park when it came out started graduating college.
We had Denver and Barney and The Land Before Time but kids suddenly memorizing all the latin names of each species was not a thing before Jurassic Park. (I think.)
Jurassic Park really is a great example of “movie magic.”
I saw it in theaters, but was too young to be tuned in to the cultural significance. As someone who has watched it 6-7 times (including on laserdisc and as recently as 3 weeks ago), I can attest that it is a perfect movie. Frame for frame, everything is done with a purpose.
> I'm not sure that anyone under the age of 45-50 can truly appreciate
Another possibility that fits these facts is that everyone is impressionable at 10-15 years old.
45yo here, pretty much just testifying that this is exactly what I remember, and I was young at the time.
I still listen to Guns'n Roses "You should be mine" frequently mostly due to that movie.
Also, Robert Patrick is the best terminator.
Robert Patrick in T2 locations: https://youtu.be/g_weC1AnDYU?is=BCovDJI83JzV2Zlj
T2 and Robocop.
> I'm not sure that anyone under the age of 45-50 can truly appreciate just how big of a deal Terminator 2 was and how big movie releases can be.
100% agreed. Really was a magical time.
For me what "infinite CGI" has done is completely dull the wow factor of literally any movie. Decades ago the effects of T2 and others blew everyone's minds in a way people who weren't around can't comprehend. CGI was brand new and special effects really felt like you were witnessing elaborate magic tricks (since that's what they were).
Now we've seen movies do basically everything and the answer to "how'd they do that???" is just "yeah they used CGI." And CGI still doesn't feel grounded in reality like practical effects do.
Disappointed this only focuses on the contemporary technology used in making the (admittedly amazing) visual effects for the film, which has been addressed multiple times across various formats. When I first watched T2 as a kid the thing which grabbed me more was that gadget John Connor uses to hack the ATM and all the cool stuff in the Cyberdyne offices. It would be nice if someone wrote an article discussing that aspect of the film, for the record and posterity's sake.
It's not from the VFX team but someone wrote a clone of the ATM hacking program
https://bert.org/2021/01/04/t2-pin-cracking/
Easy Money!
Super cool, thank you!
I thought that's an ZX-81 Spectrum but I watched it again and found out that it was not!
Edit: Watched again and it is an ATARI laptop because the brand showed up in a few frames. This is probably the one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Portfolio
A screenshot I just made: https://imgur.com/6I34YyN
You are correct, sir. See the link bluedino posted!
Thanks, yeah that's the laptop.
And back in theatres this year for the 35th anniversary, in time for Judgement Day (August 29).
Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZgIESxakso
"The 4K and 3D presentation uses STUDIOCANAL’s acclaimed 2017 restoration and 3D conversion."
Also I think we are pretty close to the year 2027 which was supposed to be the year that humans defeat Skynet.
Time flies.
Who knows, maybe Trump can help.