You'll be put in a box with the rest of the worker bees, useful for the time being, but not sophisticated enough and able of displaying higher behaviours and definitely not worthy elevating into the inner circle.
If you want. But I don't - not social status in management's eyes, anyway. They can kiss that dance goodbye. I'd rather keep my integrity.
Social standing in other workers' eyes? I can get that by knowing what I'm doing and telling the truth, even if it's not the management line. (I mean, that doesn't mean that I badmouth management all the time. That's just a whiner, and nobody but other whiners likes to be around that. But when someone needs to tell management the truth, I don't have much of a problem with being the guy who does. I'll speak for the room if they need me to.)
I mean, all that's really easy for me to say, because I'm retired now. But when I was working, I think I lived it out...
You can tell your manager anything as long as you prepare the landing.
"There is something that is bothering me, yada yada, I've been thinking about it for a while, yada yada, I don't know if this concern will be well received, yada yada, I find our meetings to be inefficient". And slooooooooowly you get to say things like "for lack of a better word: corporate bs".
The worst that could happen is you get fired of course, did you expect anything more serious could happen?
Absolutely not. Expressing everything indirectly and with a high degree of surface level positivity is the most essential skill in any sufficiently large org.
No one can really answer that without actually knowing the situation, people, culture, etc. There aren’t enough words to try and capture all the variables at play.
If they are feeding you corporate BS, then pushing back on it will probably hurt you.
If you get to know them better, it may soften, or it may not.
It also depends on the context of the communication. I’ve had managers who were very open with me and would tell me everything with no filter… but when certain messages came down from HR, they’d have to put their game face on and read them verbatim for legal reasons, which was a lot of corporate BS.
I recently had a meeting where I called out some effects of on-going messaging for which actions / results have not matched the messaging for long enough that the messaging just seems transparently BS now. ie. the trust is evaporating, and employee satisfaction is starting to reflect this.
I'm very picky with the words I choose to say things like this (like multiple 5-second pauses at times) in order to demonstrate that I understand both sides of the reasoning, but also to get the point across. Not wanting to talk up my ability to do this, but you have to know where literally everyone else 'in the room' exists in relation to your point, especially the leadership representative.
If there's an ambitious and morally flexible colleague in attendance, they will smell blood in the water and rip you to shreds to 'defend' the company/management to the benefit of their own career. If your leadership representative is a fucking snowflake, they may react like an injured mother lion protecting her cubs. If both of those are true, then start clearing out your desk as soon as possible.
The only scenario is if everything is just right. You need the entire room to be almost visibly nodding at what you're saying.
There's a place for being the guy who speaks for the room, even if it's only most of the room. But that works best when you catch management willing to listen. A project postmortem/retrospective can be a decent time, if they hold them, and if they aren't just a show.
But if management isn't willing to listen, ever, then what are you going to do by telling them? You may be telling them exactly what they need to hear, but if they aren't listening, what good are you going to do? Leaving is basically your only option at that point.
Just wait until upper management fires all of the middle managers and senior developers to increase efficiency. Then you can say whatever you want to the empty chair.
You'll be put in a box with the rest of the worker bees, useful for the time being, but not sophisticated enough and able of displaying higher behaviours and definitely not worthy elevating into the inner circle.
Ooh higher behaviours, so scary
It's a choice, if you want social status you need to participate in the dance. I haven't made the rules .
If you want. But I don't - not social status in management's eyes, anyway. They can kiss that dance goodbye. I'd rather keep my integrity.
Social standing in other workers' eyes? I can get that by knowing what I'm doing and telling the truth, even if it's not the management line. (I mean, that doesn't mean that I badmouth management all the time. That's just a whiner, and nobody but other whiners likes to be around that. But when someone needs to tell management the truth, I don't have much of a problem with being the guy who does. I'll speak for the room if they need me to.)
I mean, all that's really easy for me to say, because I'm retired now. But when I was working, I think I lived it out...
You can tell your manager anything as long as you prepare the landing. "There is something that is bothering me, yada yada, I've been thinking about it for a while, yada yada, I don't know if this concern will be well received, yada yada, I find our meetings to be inefficient". And slooooooooowly you get to say things like "for lack of a better word: corporate bs".
The worst that could happen is you get fired of course, did you expect anything more serious could happen?
Absolutely not. Expressing everything indirectly and with a high degree of surface level positivity is the most essential skill in any sufficiently large org.
The cynicism here surprises me. Many managers are open to feedback.
But if they're not new to management, chances are that someone has given them the feedback.
And if they're still doing it after a while, that's a sign that they aren't open to it.
No one can really answer that without actually knowing the situation, people, culture, etc. There aren’t enough words to try and capture all the variables at play.
If they are feeding you corporate BS, then pushing back on it will probably hurt you.
If you get to know them better, it may soften, or it may not.
It also depends on the context of the communication. I’ve had managers who were very open with me and would tell me everything with no filter… but when certain messages came down from HR, they’d have to put their game face on and read them verbatim for legal reasons, which was a lot of corporate BS.
One of the worse mistakes a developer can make is become detached from why they're being paid by a company to work on software.
You look like an animal that couldn’t do the courtship ritual for communication. Not even language, but like squeels or tails or smells.
You’ve got to read the room!
Perhaps the room need to be wiped clean
Then address it sometime appropriate
I feel sorry for lots of the people in the comments here. I have always been able to cut the BS with my managers, and it has been well received.
I think that people generally prefer clear communication, unless they are trying to hide behind processes instead of get things done.
Guaranteed closed pathway to promotion. Worst case scenario is probably quiet firing
Quit and start your own company instead. Or join someone who has.
I don't know your whole story.
But when you hit that point, at a certain limit, the only option that remains is to start your own company and leave all the drama behind.
Good luck!
what you're asking is so generic and vague. it's impossible to answer. but in general you should try to make your manager happy not sad.
I feel like it is very situational. You need to gauge your relationship with management, but it can be good.
I recently had a meeting where I called out some effects of on-going messaging for which actions / results have not matched the messaging for long enough that the messaging just seems transparently BS now. ie. the trust is evaporating, and employee satisfaction is starting to reflect this.
I'm very picky with the words I choose to say things like this (like multiple 5-second pauses at times) in order to demonstrate that I understand both sides of the reasoning, but also to get the point across. Not wanting to talk up my ability to do this, but you have to know where literally everyone else 'in the room' exists in relation to your point, especially the leadership representative.
If there's an ambitious and morally flexible colleague in attendance, they will smell blood in the water and rip you to shreds to 'defend' the company/management to the benefit of their own career. If your leadership representative is a fucking snowflake, they may react like an injured mother lion protecting her cubs. If both of those are true, then start clearing out your desk as soon as possible.
The only scenario is if everything is just right. You need the entire room to be almost visibly nodding at what you're saying.
There's a place for being the guy who speaks for the room, even if it's only most of the room. But that works best when you catch management willing to listen. A project postmortem/retrospective can be a decent time, if they hold them, and if they aren't just a show.
But if management isn't willing to listen, ever, then what are you going to do by telling them? You may be telling them exactly what they need to hear, but if they aren't listening, what good are you going to do? Leaving is basically your only option at that point.
I don't know. Try it and report back to us!
The corporate BS is propaganda to control you. You should read the Dilbert comic strip sometime.
Just wait until upper management fires all of the middle managers and senior developers to increase efficiency. Then you can say whatever you want to the empty chair.
[dead]
[dead]